Transforming Restaurant Culture and Leadership with Matt Rolfe

In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guides podcast, host Jeremy Julian is joined by bestselling author and speaker Matt Rolfe to discuss the critical role of culture in the restaurant industry. They dive deep into the challenges restaurants face when scaling and how effective leadership and clear communication can transform team dynamics. Matt shares his personal journey of overcoming learning disabilities and his passion for the hospitality industry, emphasizing the importance of co-creating goals with staff and maintaining a focus on employee experience. The conversation also includes practical steps on how to build trust within teams, the significance of consistent messaging from leadership, and how to measure and recognize success. Additionally, Matt offers insights into working through failures and the value of seeking help. For more details, listeners can connect with Matt on various platforms and explore his content-rich resources.

00:00 Matt Rolfe

00:14 Introduction and Guest Welcome

02:08 Matt's Journey into Hospitality

04:14 Unique Approach to Consulting

06:18 Common Challenges in Organizations

09:28 Creating Clarity and Accountability

12:51 Employee Experience and Leadership

15:08 Real-Life Examples and Lessons

22:14 The Importance of Core Values

22:32 Living Your Values

23:13 Humility and Growth

26:35 The Power of Asking for Help

29:25 Empowering Your Team

32:34 Engaging with Matt Rolfe

39:04 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

0:02

This is the Restaurant Technology Guides podcast, helping you run your restaurant better. In today's episode of the show, I am joined by bestselling author and speaker Matt Rolf. Matt and I got introduced to each other very recently, and I've been blown away with his passion for culture and how culture can really change the restaurant industry. He and I dig in pretty deep to. All of those things as well as what he sees are the largest problems that restaurants face as it relates to scaling and growing their people. If you don't know me, my name is Jeremy Julian. I'm the Chief Revenue Officer for CBS North Star. We sell the North Star Point sell solution for multi-units. Check us out@ccbsnorthstar.com and now onto our episode.

Jeremy Julian: 0:55

Welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. I thank everyone out there for joining us. As I say, each and every time. I know you guys have got lots of choices, so thanks for hanging out today. I am joined by a new, I would say, friend. Matt and I met, uh, recently at a trade show, and, uh, and I've gotten, uh, the ability to consume some of the, the content that Matt's put out and really, um, he and I are very much aligned on, on kind of what our belief systems are about the world and about. Kind of business and how businesses a means to, to do different things. But I'm gonna let him tell that story. Matt, why don't introduce yourself first. Um, and then we can kind of talk a little bit about what you get to do in restaurant.

Matt Rolfe: 1:30

Love it. And thank you so much for having me, and I do really value the time that you spend with us. So my goal is to bring a slight, a way to look at things slightly differently and potentially do differently for you. Um, but I'm a hospitality leadership coach. I've grown up my whole career has been in the hospitality industry. It's what I love and I spend all day working with leaders and leadership teams. Usually what we do is in a room getting clear on their strategy. But then we get to the real work is how do we turn strategy created in a boardroom or over a restaurant table into connection with staff and the behavior that shows up consistently to their guest. Um, so I'm passionate about our industry. It's my love, it's my life, and, uh, lucky and very grateful for the work I do.

Jeremy Julian: 2:07

Awesome. And I know, um, I know just in kind of passing conversations, we've talked about kind of how did you get into the industry talk, talk about kinda your early days.'cause it, it's been a lifelong thing for you, it sounds

Matt Rolfe: 2:16

It has been. Yeah, it's one of my coach. I'm obviously a coach and I have a coach, so he says sometimes your work is your mood. Um, so how I grew up, I was actually diagnosed with a learning disability at a really young age. essentially had a lot going out at home. I'm sure as a lot of you experience growing up. And when I got in the classroom, I couldn't focus, control my energy. I was getting in a lot of trouble. So I was put into these smaller classrooms, uh, with kids similar to me and really didn't get the ability to learn. So I forced my way through school. When I got to high school, my guidance counselor respectfully said, who was also my volleyball coach. So I really wanted to stay on the team, but I, he said to me when as, and Matt, you're not gonna graduate high school. I really recommend that you go look for alternative employ. And I remember it was like a pause moment. It was grade 10 stopping. I'm like, if I'm not gonna graduate high school, what am I gonna do? And I found the restaurant industry. I was, washing dishes, for somebody at some point. And it was the first point when I found the industry is I was challenging myself as what was I gonna do? And I was a pretty angry young man at that point. and I was able to find somebody who said, we believe in you. they didn't judge me for, uh, behaviors or stereotypes that I had from the school system. And to be clear, I don't judge my teachers and any of that feedback. I was a kid showing up with a lot of energy that they weren't trained on where to direct it or how to put it, and they were doing the best they could to manage full classrooms in full schools. But when I found hospitality, it didn't come with any of the badges or labels, and very quickly started to, fall in love with the industry. I went to college. In college, I started, my first job at 18 was with Bacardi. Uh, don't tell Bacardi'cause legal drinking age. Where I grew up was 19. I worked with Bacardi as a client now and was speaking on one of their stages and shared that and HR wasn't happy as a, as a joke, but started the career I, I've on premise with Bacardi, then moved over to Anheuser-Busch and then moved on to starting my own company about, 18 years ago now. And

Jeremy Julian: 4:01

I didn't realize been as.

Matt Rolfe: 4:03

Yeah.

Jeremy Julian: 4:04

Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, exactly. I started at eight. Um, you know, I was washing dishes and, uh, and started my own company. walk me through. I mean, a lot of, A lot, there's a lot of different people that are out in the industry.

Matt Rolfe: 4:15

Yep.

Jeremy Julian: 4:15

I guess what makes your guys' consulting and what it is that you guys do different? Because again, every time I get to get the opportunity to speak with you, Matt, like I, I get enlightened. I get excited about where the industry can go if done properly, but I, so I'd love for you to share a little bit with our listeners, what makes you guys different and kind of, strategic boardroom stuff is fine, but really, I know you drive right down to the frontline workers and the people that are leading those frontline workers to try and change, change things.

Matt Rolfe: 4:42

Yeah, I think one of the biggest differences that I hear back from our partners and clients in the stages we speak on is I've grown up in the industry. It's my home. So there's a lot of great coaches and consultants and programs, um, but some are brought in from outside industry. So we have the ability to talk, deep operations, have the ability to understand what people are going through in their positions. But from my side, it's not about a program. we can't take an engagement to the, to the bank a session to where we work with someone. It's not about the process, it's about the people. And I think in my experience, what I've learned the hard way is sometimes what I was designed to do is step over and solve the problem. So here's an opportunity inside of our business, whether it be driving sales, engaging our staff, retaining onboarding, tech, whichever it is, and we put in the solution. But there's human beings that need to buy in and really care and see the intention and purpose of their work. And I think what's fundamentally different is slowing down and looking at the organization at all levels, whether it's a small coffee shop or hundreds of restaurant, multiple, uh, multi-site chain. But how do we really think about why should the people care? what are they experiencing? What are they going through? How can we make this a win for them? What's in the way for them and us? And I think there's something there to really slow down and get into the prickly conversation around what that could be.'cause once we can solve that, we can unlock the goal. If not, like I have, I've invested in a lot of programs, courses and, and conferences that I didn't go and act differently. You know, my wants and my want and my commitment, and my daughter will say this, I make a commitment to my daughter every time I pack my bag. I set, my goal is to help people. it's not to deliver content. So with the work we do, um, I'm willing to sign up with passion on the result, not just the activity.

Jeremy Julian: 6:18

Yeah. And so talk to me a little bit about most organizations when you walk in, they, they've hired you for some reason, they're struggling with something. Talk us through kind of what do you see most commonly out there prior to us kind of talking about your guys' process on how you guys kind of dig in? Because I'm sure you're seeing some commonalities over 18 years where you're like, Hey, in the boardroom it looked like this, but when it got down to execution, something happened. And so talk us through one or two of those, those examples of things that you see.

Matt Rolfe: 6:43

Yeah. I think the biggest thing is, so I try to reset and anybody can do this exercise, but you know, I heard Jordan Peterson say recently, whether you like Jordan or not, he said you could put your feet on the ground when you wake up in the morning and before you stand up, ask yourself what's really in the way. Or what's one thing that if I stop doing would allow me to move forward quicker? So we're usually where my, my work starts is we wanna have a conversation that's high up in the organization to talk about what's going on for them. And in my belief, when I meet with, leaders, managers, owners, whatever the structure is, and I meet with them one-on-one and give them space and time to open up about what they're going through. Something's happening. Most of'em are overwork, overworked, overwhelmed, and over capacity. Statistically right now, seven outta 10 of us, depending on your definition of burnout, and I'm not trying to leverage, you know, burnout, but seven outta 10 of us are feeling challenge and struggle in respect to what we would classify as burnout in our own definition right now. So I think the pause is to stop there and just say what's working for the organization? What's not, you know, where are you investing your time? And rather than talk about what can I do for them. What do you want for, what do we really want here? And then sometimes it's not about more stores and higher sales, sometimes it's like balance of capacity. It's putting people back in their unique abilities. But I think one of the patterns right now is, again, I'll say this, I think I said already, don't mistake activity for achievement. It's making sure that, you know, we, I've, I've literally worked 80 hour weeks and worked my own companies backwards at different stages. I, I've made these mistakes. so my side is, it's not necessarily about the hours. It's how do we find that joy and love in what we're doing again, and get a little bit of time on a weekly basis to invest in there. And I, I think we've gotta start a little farther upstream rather than the solution. What, what are we really experiencing good and challenging?

Jeremy Julian: 8:25

I love that example. And I was just, um, being interviewed by somebody else on, on their podcast yesterday and we were kind of talking about even just technological in innovations and why do most technology, so, deployments, they struggle. They struggle to get outta the gates. They struggle to get, you know, implemented. And you could talk about it technology, you could talk about IT operations, you could talk about it. Any number of ways. And so you said something that, um, made me think that you probably, uh, probably subscribed to some of his leadership stuff. Dan Sullivan, strategic Coach. Um, uh, I actually suggested in almost all projects filling out an impact filter is part of this. And really the impact filter for those that aren't familiar is, is a, a one page summary of kind of what the project's initiatives are to get done. You, you talked, Matt, about kind of creating clarity as to where you want to get to, and that impact filter for me has been a, a huge tool. Help me understand why you think that's such a, an integral part to start. I'm, I'm not necessarily saying the street, the, um, the impact filter as much as creating clarity on what you want to get, because at the end of the day, creating that clarity helps you drive the solution that you're trying to get to long term.

Matt Rolfe: 9:27

Yeah. And I think the question here is for, for anybody, no matter what space you're in, if you're representing a tech product, if you're in restaurant, if you're leading a restaurant, whichever it is, I. The question I ask is, how do we win? Like, what's the definition of winning? And often it's a behavior. it's not a result. It's not a pro profitability percentage, it's not cogs, it's, there has to be something that really allows us to win. And we talked briefly before this, but you know, Simon Sinek says, profitability is a result, a consistent human behavior. It's a. So my side is to try to get clear as what could we celebrate at the end of the year in whatever version that you celebrate. But sometimes if we don't get clear on that, and this is what breaks my heart, I'll work with a new group and I'll go in and I'll walk, I'm walking through into this meeting and one of the new leaders will say, Matt, I'm, I'm so grateful to be in the position. I'm kicking butt in this, in my role. And then I get in the boardroom and they're like, Sally out there, or Dave out there just doesn't really get it. Why don't they get it? It's not that they don't get the measurable result, it's that we haven't created the absolute clarity as to what we're looking to accomplish in this timeframe. And usually it should be exciting, not a massive goal. And I know all this sounds simple and we know this but this is new. This is a new content, but there's a difference between knowing it. And I speak from my own experience knowing it in a book.'cause I've read a lot of the books too, and I've run business at my own companies for almost 20 years where I didn't do it. So the difference now is what is exactly is that clarity? And does everybody in the organization know what the clear goal is? Can they buy? Are they in agreement with the goal? And how do you recognize and celebrate when we make small behaviors in the direction of that goal?

Jeremy Julian: 10:54

Well, and why do you think that is the case, that they're not able to articulate that vision down to the frontline workers?'cause I know that's part of what you guys help with, is clarifying that vision and then allowing it to get down to the people that are actually executing and those behaviors, as you talked about.

Matt Rolfe: 11:08

Yeah, I think like we can go back to the year's resolution examples. That's why, you know, the research will show why most of us don't do that, is once we publish goals, we're accountable. You know, if we, and we could use, like we, we want a great culture. That's a good initiative, but what does that that really mean?

Jeremy Julian: 11:20

What does that look like?

Matt Rolfe: 11:21

What does it look like exactly? I think that's the, the perfect question, right? not what, what is it? What does it look like and how does it show up on the floor in the restaurant? It's a beautiful and perfect, question, but I think what's in the way is often we're designed to think that consistent communication means micromanagement. And here's a fundamental difference between the top performing leaders I've had a chance to study and average in our industry. And average is still pretty good, but it's average and it's not achieving the possibility that it could, is we need to make sure we have clarity up top, but how do we relentlessly and consistently communicate that strategy in a fashion that lands to the audience we're talking to? And to slow that down a bit like, the best leaders I, that I've worked with have three core priorities, and they're talking to minimum every day. Every single day. I worked with Anheuser-Busch before I started my company, and Carlos Brito was just rated the top CEO of the last a hundred years. Jack Welsh was the last one. He was next. And when they took over the beer industry, every office I saw them walk in, they left sticky notes at the top, priorities, didn't let them know that they were there and what they talked about. And if it didn't tie back to the priorities, you know, they made more profit last year than all consumer packaged good companies combined. clarity and message. So I think success leaves clues. I'm giving an example outside of restaurants, but the, the test is everyone's got a napkin in their, in their restaurant. I'll go into your restaurant and you can do this too. It's just go down to your people in the front line and you're in your locations and ask'em to write down what matters. Like what's the overall goal or what does success look like or how do we win? And without judgment, look at pattern of response. Because it's our job as leaders to create clarity and we can't judge them for wherever they're at, but it's a really great exercise to get to understand where are they at.

Jeremy Julian: 12:51

And so the dichotomy, I guess, Matt, from the brands that you see that are winning from the brands that you see when you go start an engagement talk to talk our audience through kind of what do you, when you see a brand that you know is struggling and, and, and is in need of your services and services like these to help, what do you typically see when you go down to those frontline? Workers and say what matters? What does a win look like? You know, what do you feel like when you come to work, whatever those types of activities are that you guys kind of ask. What is a, a common thing that you're seeing? Because I want our audience to almost hear these words.'cause if they ask or if they hear these things from their staff, they probably need to raise their hand and say, Hey, we need to do something. And then we'll flip it around and talk about where, where the clarity gets created.

Matt Rolfe: 13:30

Here's gonna be a response that most people aren't going to expect. And this is the, the real work. So what's happened is somebody's created, they've designed goals and they've communicated those goals. And we have employees at different levels of the organization that are responsible for executing. From frontline up to middle level management, your ROMs and and your office, whatever the structure is. The biggest difference that I see between top performers and average is they're not in agreement as to what their responsibilities are to execute that goal. So leadership has communicated and want somebody has received it and say, we totally understand that, but when they walk out of that meeting, what I often hear from managers, staff, even leadership, is, I know that we wanna do that, but don't they know we're 20% short? they know that we're struggling with menu prices? Don't we know that the competition just opened up across the street and we're, you know, they're looking at our staff. I understand what they want to do, but how could I possibly fit that in my day and my week? I'm already over capacity, so the biggest thing I'm looking for is how do we really ensure and stay in the fun, exciting, or the prickly and challenging conversation to put people in place to make sure that we get into agreement. And I can tell you nine times outta 10, I look at your meeting agendas. If you have a structured meeting from a pre-shift to a strategy session, how much time is left at the end of that meeting to go back and say, what did we all commit to in this space? So we return, what are we gonna do our best to do? You don't have to do it, but most meetings, I, I, we gotta go because, you know, we're over time already and off we go with best of intentions, but without accountability, agreement is the biggest piece to shift to any team in my experience.

Jeremy Julian: 14:57

Yeah. and so when you get in with those, with those teams, is that kind of some of the things that you've seen? They have, they're repeating what the goals are. They're repeating what the actions are that need to be taken. They're, I tell a very true story. Years ago I worked with the Inn Out Group, and anybody that's ever been in and around the Inn Out group, they're amazing culture. They have such a culture of accountability. And I had asked somebody, I said, what makes you guys so unique? Because they don't, their product is good, but it's not. Light years better. They're, you know, they pay better than, than industry averages. There's a lot of things that are unique about the brand, but the product itself is not what sets them apart, per se. And he said, honestly, it for them, it's all about the culture. They kick out the bad apples when they know that they're about apple. Really, really cl. Quickly and they know what winning looks like for every position within, within the group. And they really only looked at that time Patty count and shake count. The only two measurements in the entire brand that they looked at at that time is what he had shared with me, which was really interesting to me. Where you've got food costs and do I worry about food costs or do I worry about guest experience? Do I worry about, you know, traffic, or do I worry about my third party delivery? I mean, you, you know, all of the stories and all of the excuses that can kind of come up. So I'd love to get your take on your thoughts through that.

Matt Rolfe: 16:08

yeah, and I think it looks at, so what are the, what are the measurables? I think the, the biggest piece to go a little bit farther up is how do we co-create, so you can tell by them asking that it's patties and shakes, um, but there's also, we use this big term of culture, uh, if we can, and I love the term culture, but what if we shifted it to experience, you know, what is your commitment to your employee experience? That's rarely asked, what is our commitment to our guest? Everyone's gonna have a, have some type of answer for that, whether it's consistent or not. That's another process. But what is the experience or commitment that we're promising to our people? And one of my, one of my goals in every single project or ongoing engagement or coaching relationship is to make sure if it's a big enough strategy to matter, pats and shakes. How do we co-create execution? They've got clear on the measurement, but we wanna co-create, so we can get feedback from all levels of the organization as to what execution looks like. And these might sound like big words, but they're not all they care about. We want this to, if we're not listening to our people to shape what we're expecting them to do, we're missing opportunity. Um,'cause there's like, I've been so many projects where people have come to the front and shared something that fundamentally shifted that I never saw coming. And I, I love that.

Jeremy Julian: 17:14

Well, and at the end of the day, I have a fundamental belief that people want to do the right thing. I have a fundamental belief that people want to help and they want to do a good job. I think there's a very, very, very, very small percentage of people, if at all. The world that don't wanna do the right thing when they know what to do and they know they're gonna try their best to get you there. If they know what success and winning looks like, and they do it when you lead them there. and if they don't have clarity, they're left up to their own vices to kind of make those decisions. And so is that something that you can consistently see out there Is, is left to their own spaces. And I see this actually in franchise groups. A lot really won't well run franchise groups. It operates like clockwork, really poorly executed franchise groups. It's all chaos. The menu might be different. the greetings might be different, the colors might be, you know, and so for me, I see that consistently out in the space. And so is it, is it creating that clarity and then holding the accountability and then teaching and coaching up when it doesn't meet the, uh, the requirements?

Matt Rolfe: 18:10

Yeah, I think like what you shared there and even just, um,'cause it sounds so simple to say, but how do people win? I mean, we could all like that. Just, it, it sounds like it'd be a quick statement, right? We wanna know how we win. but really who decides if they're clear on how they win us or the person that, that you're the person that you're leading, that you're managing, that you're supporting, that you're employee, the person that you need to check in with, that they're clear is them. Telling is not selling is an old statement from a Zig Ziglar book from years ago, and we don't sell products, but I sell ideas and I sell behaviors. So what I wanna do is verify is the person, are they clear as to how they went inside their role? And if there's one thing that there's so much going on in 2025, as there have been for the last several years now, but in 2025, if you just paused and, and got, got some feedback from your people. Around how do they feel they win. I can promise you it's worth the slowdown of the exercise'cause it will create the clarity that you need. You know, telling someone how they win, but recognizing, rewarding, and celebrating the behaviors in the direction of that goal. One thing I learned during the pandemic is I, I studied a bunch of habits. When was habits changed. You cannot consistently change a behavior by giving somebody trouble for what they're not doing. There's neuroscience studies behind this now. Uh, James Clear's book Atomic Habits would be the, the most common one that would be have to find those micro opportunities to recognize small things that move us in the direction we want to go.'cause then we go, I did that, it felt good. Somebody gave me recognition. I got more hours, I, I got the next promotion. We got, we hit profitability, we hit target. What we have to recognize the behaviors in, in the direction of our goals. But that all starts with slowing down and making sure. And here here's the biggest difference we do with our partners. We have a document, it's called A Path to Leadership. And the the reason being, we think that the path to leadership's for the employee or the manager, it's not. It's, they get the clarity, but it also holds, it allows us to hold who's above us accountable to support those behaviors. So when somebody says, this is how you win, then we're responsible to coach the behavior, show up to the behavior, recognize the behavior, give them the time they want and need around that.'cause we've made a commitment to our people and I want the leadership accountability on, on what I call a path to leadership or how we win as a section of that document. and once we get that, then we're a team.

Jeremy Julian: 20:16

Yep. Well, and I would, uh, encourage, I mean we, um, we implemented EOSA number of years ago, within our own business and, uh, I actually encourage our team members, if they see anybody in leadership, myself included, not acting in accordance with our core values to call me out on it. I give them permission to do it. And so you gotta be careful.

Matt Rolfe: 20:33

Yep.

Jeremy Julian: 20:34

Obviously gi give them permission to hold you accountable, but it's humbling when somebody comes to you and says, Hey, that wasn't, you know, one of our core values happens to be humble, and I wasn't being humble in a certain circumstance, and somebody somebody called me out on. And it was hard. It was hard to hear. It was hard to see, and I could have reacted in one of two ways, which I guess I'd love your opinion on this, Matt, is, is I could have been like, no, you're wrong. You're an idiot. You don't know what you're doing.

Matt Rolfe: 20:55

Yeah.

Jeremy Julian: 20:55

Introspectively. I looked at it and said, they're right. I was wrong. I wasn't acting in accordance with their core values, and thank you for pointing out my blind spot. do you see that happen from time to time where the lower level employees are encouraged to hold people accountable and the leaders either change to meet that demand or they they bucket and create some dissension and now you've got, now you've got some challenges there.

Matt Rolfe: 21:18

Yeah. And if I could share a really vulnerable story,'cause I got the punch in the gut on this about 12 years ago. So I walked in, we got a call from our office one day and say something with the alarm system went off and we'd go in the morning and they're like, there's something, one of the doors broke in the office. And I'm like, what's going on? It was one of our employees. We had our core values written on our wall. One of the values said that we had the best tools in the industry to do our job. So we wanna make sure employees had the best tools. At the time our server wasn't syncing and this employee was stuck at the office repeatedly till two in the morning to sync their databases. Don't worry about the detail, but it really mattered to him because he wasn't home to see his girlfriend, he wasn't home to see his dog, and it happened three times in a row. So this person in their frustration got on the desk and scratched out the core value. It's a dramatic, very vulnerable, this is my lead. I, I've made the mistakes myself and I've learned the lessons and my response was to go in and say, you scratched the wall. And, and'cause he was so frustrated the door hit on the way out. but I just, we pulled the whole company in and we said the behavior not ideal. We knew the employee. We were a fiery little entrepreneurial team back then. But I said, he's absolutely right. And the whole room stopped.'cause you know, core values are easy to write on a wall or write in your server training manual, but they are published accountability. they are really what we stand for. And every business has values, whether they are written on a document or on a wall or not. But my question for you is are you living your values? And Patrick's and Shown has some great work around here. Um, and I'll just say really quick here, but what are our core values? But for a lot of us, when we write core values usually have six to eight of them. Some of them are aspirational, meaning it's something that you want to grow into and become, but you're not there yet. There's so much power to share with your team to say, we wanna be, you know, the best. We wanna be the best employer. Or we wanted the best culture. Okay, what does that mean? And on a scale of zero to 10, where are you on the values? And it creates a human opportunity for you to go to your people to say, we're not perfect, but this is what we're moving towards. This is core. These are the behaviors, the pay to play as he calls them, pay to play, to be in this box. And, and I go to that exercise every time I see values as something that's discussed. Um, but sometimes we have things that we're aspiring to be in and we're not perfect yet. And people can help us and, and having some humility and growing and, and your people want human not perfect. They wanna know when you make a mistake, how do you own in your leadership fashion? in my younger years as a coach and as an entrepreneur, I made a lot of mistakes and he had to get their answer right, and I worked extensively with a coach and in Tony Robbins programs that say that behavior was my ego. Nobody wants the answer for me. I'm a coach. Nobody. I don't, I do not have the answer for you to fix your operation. And the context and the space for you to get clear on the questions that need to focus on, that'll unlock. You're the expert of your, of your group. but we're, my goal's a great space. We get clarity and once I got outta my own way and allowed people to step forward, you know, the businesses went a lot better when I got outta the way. And, um, and the coaching business significantly grew.'cause someone like you, Jeremy, can see someone like me coming from across the room before I say words respectfully. Are they genuine or are they not? You know, are they value based or are they not? And, uh, yeah, that, that's my, my position on values.

Jeremy Julian: 24:13

Yeah. No, and, and part of why I think that, um, you and I, I mean, we only met recently, you know, four or five weeks ago, but it, it, uh, there's definitely a, a kindred spirit there of, truly, trying to make the world a better place through what we, what we've been able, what we've been given, and how do we give back to help people to achieve that. Where has that passion come from, Matt, that passion. you have a passion for people that. Just exudes out of you every single time I get the chance to, to communicate with you. What, where does that come from and I guess, how does it even manifest in your day in and day out? Because I, there's so many things you do that help the world be a better place through people.

Matt Rolfe: 24:50

It's it very kindly to say, I don't know why I got an emotional reaction when you, you shared that.'cause it's, uh, my side is the way that I grew up and the environment, based on by design. I was told what I couldn't do. you know, and most of my life was spent, fighting somebody else's opinion of what I could do, and then people unlocked that for me. You know, my first business partner kid Andrew at, 25, really sat me down and, and said, you know, you're in your own way. But when I saw the impact is when you just, you're just present. and I didn't read a book until I was 25. The first book I read was Thinking Girl Rich by Napoleon Hill. I didn't think I could really read. Um, but just a side of law of attraction. And I am, that's why I know I'm not the coach for everybody.'cause I deeply care about your people. And that could, if you like, we can great, we can uncover some things if we're not ready for them, do the pre-work. But I care about the people inside of our industry'cause I want them to stay. I want that, I want, you know, the young person coming through college to, to really get a great opportunity so they can study and go to school and move forward. I have this incredible desire to get back. I don't know where it comes from, but it's, I think I had a lot that I lacked in certain capacities at a young age, and I changed the belief system as you shared earlier, that the only person in my way was me. And if I, and I've also learned that when I'm out, um, in the Tony Robbins program, he challenged me about 10 years ago. He said, if you can't give now where you're at, you're not gonna give when you're gonna be successful and you're gonna be successful if I need you to give now.

Jeremy Julian: 26:16

Yeah. That's

Matt Rolfe: 26:17

said, yeah, and, and it's, and I was, I was struggling to make payroll. And he is like, but I'm gonna push it. Like, and it was, it was for an incredible cause. And he said it was about the cause and it's not, it was a one-on-one exchange, I think at the time it was 2,500 bucks or something. And it wasn't about the money, it was about beliefs and.

Jeremy Julian: 26:31

about your heart. It's about your heart and, and the abundance and, and all of that. The other one that I would share,'cause I just had this conversation this earlier this week with somebody is, is the ability to ask for help and be humble enough to ask for help for what you don't know. You also exhibit that, and in almost every conversation I've had with you, does that come from kind of that same place of I'm gonna give what I have, but what I don't have. I'm gonna be humble enough to ask.

Matt Rolfe: 26:53

that's a new, that's my new work. so you know, somebody who we both know, and Greg Majeski from Craig, I had a chance to meet him recently, or a couple years ago. We became friend, like kind in a one-on-one setting at. We both spoke at the same event and I messaged him after and my phone rang and I dunno if anybody knows Greg from cr. He's a pretty busy guy. And I text him and two seconds later the phone rang midday and he said, Hey, listen. He said, you're, you're a good guy. And he said, I really care about the work. He said, I've seen a lot of people come through and I care about the work you're looking to do and the work that you're doing, but he said, there's a lot of people that wanna help you. And the only way, the only person in your way is you, you to be more brave to go and ask, for help. I can show up in a space and a help an audience, but help myself was kind of a three year journey now to realize, to go to somebody and ask for mentorship. I could do that a year, but now we're to go to somebody and ask for clarity on, as I grow in the US market, it is so overwhelming. Our industry is very overwhelming on a global stage. And I think now it's just part of my, part of my story was thinking things need to be hard. And what I've realized, and that goes to any, no matter what position you are in our industry, your supplier or operator, um, we're designed, I believe, my belief is that things are harder than they should be. So one of my things now is I'm getting really comfortable. Things can happen pretty darn quick, pretty easily if I just allow them to, and I'll still work the hours and I love the work, but it doesn't need to be as hard as I've made it for the last 30 years, I'll tell you that much.

Jeremy Julian: 28:17

I love that. I was, I was sharing, sharing the story. 12 years ago, my wife and I adopted, and just before that we had done submission work overseas and my pastor said to me in a one-on-one conversation, you are robbing people of the opportunity to partner with you. They may never adopt, they may never go overseas and go serve. You know, the unfortunate, but you're robbing them of that opportunity. to partner with you in that regard. And so helping you, you get such a passion for helping other people, and now it's turning it around and I'm getting, I'm getting emotional thinking about it. It's that opportunity to have others pour into you the same way that you pour into other people. And so I would encourage our listeners to consider that, that you don't have to have all of the answers, that you don't have to be that person that is always the right person. you may learn, and, and again, when you and I talked to him over my left shoulder here is, you know, well, GA's book, he talked about his beer program. He knew nothing about beer. He was a wine guy when he started it and he gave it to somebody. And now that person ended up growing quite a bit. And so I'd love, I'd love I guess just your thoughts on that, Matt.

Matt Rolfe: 29:11

Yeah, I think the, the other side of. going, you look at Will, asking for someone to come and help his beer program. Great book. Anybody, everybody in the industry and outside should read the book. but I think it's the opportunity is the how do we surround ourselves? We go back to the, where do I start my work. It's usually a leader who has created a, what I call a codependent relationship. They find the business so they have to answer all the questions that they've resented and the people resent that they have to go to them and get the an no, the answers answered. so I'd say that's where someones, it feels overwhelmed'cause everyone's plugged into them and asking'em things every day and the people coming to'em and don't wanna ask, they want the authority and both parties are upset and the unwind is how do we build trust and, 80% done to your level of expectations, pretty darn good.

Jeremy Julian: 29:54

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Rolfe: 29:55

So we can get people to buy in.

Jeremy Julian: 29:57

I had a mentor of mine one time. He is like, you like it when people stand outside your office and want to, he says, you get, your ego gets a hit that they need you. And it was a, that for me a number of years ago was one of those life giving things. It's like, no, I need them to be better and I need them to be in that place. And I would encourage a lot of our listeners out there, especially if you're leading companies, leading your restaurants, is. Put it in the hands of the, they're gonna fail from time to time. But if it's not fatal, if it's not doing anything illegal, let them fail. Let them learn.'cause you know what, we all learned through trial and error and we, we broke stuff while we were coming up.

Matt Rolfe: 30:28

Yeah, I had some people that, based on how I grew up, there's a lot of stuff going on and a lot of really challenging stuff. So something that was wired, if I could protect somebody, I will. It's a natural human. You know, if I go out for dinner with you, I'll rarely say with my back to a door. It's not on purpose. It's built in. If I decided to keep people safe, but then it showed up in my business and my coaching. Right. I and I, when I had some really good people leave my company, and one thing that when we did the reviews, they didn't leave on bad terms, but they said, Matt, one thing that you never let us do, you never let us fail. Um, and I thought I was protecting, but here's the deeper work. As I went farther into it, I was getting, and I'm not talking just to myself here to share my story'cause some might relate. I was getting my needs met by being able to go in and solve problems. And I thought I was helping, but I was getting in the way of people who cared for me and I cared for them. I was getting in the way of their development. I was slowing, our execution down and our service for this term, our sales. so sometimes realize if you're, if you're acting the behavior, it's, it says, I should stop doing that. The one thing we gotta go back is we need to create gravity in the direction of something new because you've been getting your, I've been getting my needs met by solving people's problems for years and in order for me to let it go, what I do with leaders is we need to create gravity that's so strong over here that allows us to let that go, but we have to have something else to grab onto. Every time I see somebody in a sales, a really great salesperson goes to sales manager or a GM goes to wrong in the first two to four weeks when I call them. Where do you think they are? They're back in their

Jeremy Julian: 31:50

They're back in the store. They go back to the level of comfort. I'm gonna go run a shift, I'm gonna go run the expo line. Everybody that's a GM that started in the kitchen, they work the expo line on a busy Friday night. Everybody that started in the front of the house, they go back to the front desk or they go walk the dining room. It's, it's, uh, it's that level of comfort that goes back to kind of that Pavlov that. Lobbying dog of, I'm gonna just go back to what it is that I'm used to doing. I say it all the time, art, my dad who runs our organization, he goes to sell, he gets stressed, he wants to go sell something'cause he is an entrepreneur. He wants to either go create or he wants to go sell something, you know? And I think we all do it, but I think we all do it in unintentionally. But I love the idea that you guys. as an organization and even just the work that you've done on your, on yourself, Matt, have gotten to the, to the root cause of where and why you're there so that you can work through it and get to that next level. How exactly do you guys engage, and I know that you guys have got a couple different methodologies, so for those listeners that are out there, like I want to be where Matt is bringing organizations. I know you guys have got some consulting work, you've got some speaking work, you've got some application type stuff. How should people engage and what does that look like to work with you and your team?

Matt Rolfe: 32:52

Yeah, and I think it's whether you're working with me or, or not, the biggest thing that we do is we, you know, you, we need to have a focused conversation around where the operation's currently at. So again, sometimes if I get brought, like my phone rings and says, we need somebody to do this. I've got a meeting next Wednesday. We want you to do all this stuff. I'm like, no, slow down. let's just do a little health check on the business. And I think the reality is how do we hold that mirror up? How do we look across the table? How do we get clear as to where are we at right now? And then where do we want to go? But let's go back to Dan Sullivan from from Strategic Coach,'cause he's one of the most brilliant people on the planet. What I'm gonna do in that session is I'm gonna look back 12 months and allow you to recognize the progress that you've made. Dan Sullivan wrote a beautiful book called The Gap in the Game, one of my favorite books. But sometimes we see where we want to go, but we can prove what we did to get to where we are now. And all of you have made progress in the last 12 months, especially. So I want us to look at our progress. I wanna look at where we are and I wanna look forward. So for example, I got brought into a LO 800 location franchise group a couple weeks ago. Um, they said, we want you to train our franchisees. I said, that sounds great. Know the organization. And by the end of the session, I said, franchisees is stage two. Um, and you may or may not need be for that, but we designed a whole, what they call rom or district manager strategy in the session to realize that was the linchpin of execution for accountability.'cause franchisees will do or not do, but we had to redesign and make sure when those, what we left with, when those ROMs are at a party, we want to tell them that they changed franchisees lives, not, they perform franchise audits. And so that's like, to give you some context that.

Jeremy Julian: 34:18

And that's such a fundamental root cause change in the behavior. I'm sorry, I'm I, I don't mean to interrupt you, but it's like, you know what, that to me, I'm changing franchisees lives, I'm making their businesses better. I'm helping them to succeed, versus I'm going through a checklist that you're, you are going through a checklist, but your checklist, ultimately your goal is to figure out how to make them successful.'cause when they win, guess who else wins. The brand wins and everybody wins.

Matt Rolfe: 34:44

Yeah. So I think that, and that's decided to say what's, you know, where are we at, where are we going and what's really in the way? And, and I practice appreciative inquiry when I go into teams. I'm not looking for what's wrong. We'll find, we can find that if we look for it. My company, yours, anybody's, I'm looking to find out what's really working for you. And most teams I get exposure to when we get clear on that, it's about accelerating what's led us here. I've had some really great groups say, Matt, all you've done is take us back to, you know, what we were doing 10 years ago. I had a really big, like really, really big restaurant or billion dollar brand, and the president called, he's like, we're just going back to role values. I said, that's great.'cause we were pretty far away from them 36 months ago, weren't we? And he said, yeah, you're right.

Jeremy Julian: 35:19

and I think all too often, I think the shiny object happens. And you see, I mean, I've, I've been into brands and it's like they, they just, they're pivoting left, right, left right. And, and to your point earlier in our conversation, the frontline workers don't even know what winning looks like. And so they're trying to execute. I mean, again, we were just at RLC when, when we met in person for the first time. And, um, we watched the guys at Chili's who, you know. Many people put them as dead and gone. Now they're making just a huge comeback. But what did he do? He created an opportunity where they know what winning looks like. They've got a barbell, menu strap. I mean, there's so many things that he did, but he got back to simply creating good food, a good environment to allow people to come in. And it is so simple when you look at it in hindsight, but going through it, it's not that easy.

Matt Rolfe: 36:01

Yeah, and what they showed too, right, is they obviously a leader who's proven to turn around multiple brands, um, but went in and understood where he brought value, but went in restaurants repeatedly and asked the front line of what was in the way for them. Or here's how you win. What?'cause it's easy. Here's how you win, but what might prevent you? And that's a question we always ask if this is the goal when we're deep in service or deep in a sales target.'cause we work with a bunch of different teams. What gets in the way? And let's get clear, okay, let's overcome that objection where it exists and it lives and we resent it on both sides. so it's just getting clear as to, you know, where we want to go, but we've gotta look at all the factors of what that contribute to that.

Jeremy Julian: 36:36

and just a really quick one on Chili's, and I don't remember if he spoke about it there, but I've, I've heard him speak about it before. Is, is chilies used to have two different types of chicken tenders and the, and he simplified it from two different types of chicken tenders to one type of chicken tenders and that alone. Didn't drive. And, you know, the, the beer battered ones or the, the tempura ones only drove like 15% of the chicken tender sales, but they took twice as long to produce. And, and it really created this complexity within the environment. And back to what you said, I promise you the CEO doesn't know, he knows maybe that they're moving this much product, but he doesn't know that they're only, that it's causing so much pain at the front line without asking. And so I love that idea that says, oh. Go sit in the store, go figure out what it looks like. reminds me of the Undercover Boss show that was on years ago, where the CEOs would go work in the stores and they're like, why are people doing it this way? This is dumb. because at their seat they didn't see those things, but now you're undercover. You can see that this is what your guests are seeing, what your staff is seeing and such. is that kind of some of the stuff that you guys dig through as you guys get down to the front line?

Matt Rolfe: 37:35

Yeah. We'll do, and we'll start. One thing we do is discovery calls. Um, so another project we're just starting, like, let's get going and let, let's just talk to your people. Um, so it could be operational inside the restaurant or we literally have calls'cause we'll create a space where people will open it up, to me in a setting or my team in a setting that. They don't get in their current work environment. So we frame it, it's confidential, but, and it's not for them to complain about the operations, but what are they really going through? You know, that's, and we, what I, it's not looking at any one person's response. If you're doing mystery shops, I don't care about the worst response. What I care about is I care about the patterns that show up on some type of scale that are consistent. What's the top repeating pattern? Let's apply focus and fix that. Um, same thing with the behaviors in inside the store, but we also go inside in, in the restaurants. Like I, I love being in the restaurant, getting an idea of how leaders see their own restaurants and then also getting a chance to see it as a guest. This been, sometimes it's been a long time since we've looked at our restaurant through the eyes of our guest,

Jeremy Julian: 38:28

Yes.

Matt Rolfe: 38:29

'cause we're, all, when we're all inside our own four walls, we've got a whole bunch of patterns that are influencing our, our view. sometimes just step back. Okay. When's the last time you, you know, placed an online order through third party or.

Jeremy Julian: 38:40

I say that all the time. It's like they, they go into the source'cause they have to, or they, they need to have meetings and things like that. But it's like, have you ordered from third party? What does the product look like? Have you ordered, you know, have you ordered just the four menu items that you always eat or have you ordered the entire menu? You're the CEO, you're the district manager. You can order everything on the menu and. Taste it, see what it looks like. Yes, I realize that you don't like, fish sticks. But at the end of the day, try'em. See what happens there. So, I love kind of all of what you have shared, Matt. How do people learn more? How do people get in touch? How do people engage? What does it look like if they wanna reach out and, uh, engage your team?

Matt Rolfe: 39:10

if they wanna, if they wanna reach out, um, you can email me directly, matt@mattrolfe.com. We do just discovery calls and this is an opportunity to get back. You know, we're not directly selling, um, we say no to more work than we take on, not as a filter too, but we wanna work with people who wanna make, wanna execute something different. But my goal is every week I spend time where it's just, it's a conversation. About an operation, whether we ever work with them or not. it's in my values to give back on a weekly basis. Uh, some, a fraction of those turn into work. Uh, but it all starts with a, a conversation if you wanna learn more. Uh, we put, uh, content out every day on LinkedIn. Um, and it's more, again, not selling anything, trying to give away values or insights. you can go to my website@mattrolfe.com, our YouTube channel at Matt Rolfe coaching. There's hours of content on the YouTube channel. I've taken all of my presentations and they're broken down into bite-sized pieces and up there. There'll be some new ones uploaded shortly. but I think the biggest thing, if you're looking to engage or make change, it's not about the coach, not about me or anybody else you're talking to. So what do you really want and why? You know what's, what's the motivation? and I, I encourage you to be very, very selfish. And then when we're positively selfish for the best of our people and our guests, then does an outside coach help you accelerate and get the momentum or get you there better, quicker, faster? but I'd be love to talk to, I, I love our industry and I like the people driver industry, not the four walls. Anybody wants to have a chat? I'd be happy to.

Jeremy Julian: 40:28

I love it. and uh, Matt is a little bit humble, but he also has a book that you can go by,

Matt Rolfe: 40:33

actually my copy, there's 2.0 version in a new book coming out, so we'll, we'll have lots coming on that as well.

Jeremy Julian: 40:39

Awesome. Awesome. Matt. It has truly been a pleasure. I, I, I know I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for the things that you've done and continue to do for our industry. Thank you for continuing to put, this positivity out into the world. To our listeners, guys, we don't take your time for granted. So thank you guys for hanging out with us. Uh, this week. If you haven't already subscribed, please do so on your favorite listening platform. And Matt, uh, thank you again, and to our listeners, make it a great day.

Matt Rolfe: 41:00

Thank you so much.

41:03

Thanks for listening to The Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. Visit restaurant technology guys.com for tips, industry insights, and more to help you run your restaurant better.