In the Loupe
In the Loupe
In the Loupe Episode 200: Transforming the Jewelry Industry Through Podcasting
Cheers to Episode 200 of In the Loupe! Whether you've been with us since the beginning, or this is your first episode, thanks for joining us!
Join us for our special 200th episode of "In the Loupe," where we journey from our humble beginnings as the "Jeweler's Survival Kit" to becoming a pivotal marketing tool within the jewelry world. You'll hear from Ross Cockerham, CEO of Punchmark, and our editor Paul Suarez. Listen in as we reflect on our evolution over five and a half seasons, the challenges of the pandemic, and how our content has adapted to continue supporting jewelers in a rapidly changing market.
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
Inquire about sponsoring In the Loupe and showcase your business on our next episode: podcast@punchmark.com
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop in the first place under the name the Jeweler's Survival Kit, what our goals were within the beginning, but also how we were able to grow it over the last five seasons and what our goals are going forward. I also am going to be talking with some of the people who make In the Loop possible. A special interview will be with my boss, ross Cockrum, and we're talking about what a podcast is and how it fits into a business as a marketing channel and kind of what our goals are with it. And I will also, for the first time ever, be speaking with my editor, paul Suarez. I've actually never spoken with him before.
Speaker 1:I have texted with him every single week for five years, but for the first time I'm going to jump on a Zoom and get a chance to talk with him. It's going to be pretty cool. I've never heard him talk. I don't even know what he looks like and I think it would be a really cool opportunity, after 200 episodes, to get a chance to speak with him about editing in the loop. So everybody, for the 200th time, enjoy the show For the 200th time enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the jewelry industry's favorite website platform and digital growth agency. Our mission reaches way beyond technology. With decades of experience and long-lasting industry relationships, punchmark enables jewelry businesses to flourish in any marketplace. We consider our clients our friends, as many of them have been friends way before becoming clients. Punchmark's own success comes from the fact that we have a much deeper need and obligation to help our friends succeed. Whether you're looking for better e-commerce performance, business growth or campaigns that drive traffic and sales, punchmark's website and marketing services were made just for you. It's never too late to transform your business and stitch together your digital and physical worlds in a way that achieves tremendous growth and results. Schedule a guided demo today at punchmarkcom. Slash go.
Speaker 1:And now back to the show. All right, everybody, welcome to episode 200 of In the Loop. This episode is going to be a little bit longer, I expect, and also more of like a mashup and compilation and port of force, even with a couple of different interviews. I think I know that Ross is going to be on. I think I might try to interview my editor, who I've never spoken with before. I've communicated with him every single week, sometimes multiple times a week, for five years at this point and I've never once spoken to him and I don't even know what he looks like. So I think I'm going to be able to interview him, which would be really cool. And also I wanted to get a chance to recap why we started In the Loop, what the early days were like and also where it stands now, because over the course of the last five seasons and it's more like five and a half seasons we have changed and redeveloped what In the Loop is like.
Speaker 1:And I think I'd like to kind of explain because maybe you know you weren't listening back then. A lot of you weren't when we started, this was a very small podcast and we started under a different name. If you scroll all the way back in our catalog on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and you scroll all the way back, you'll notice that we have a different name. We were, for the first seven episodes, the Jewelers Survival Kit. We had different branding, different audio and it had a much more serious tone than what I like to portray. It was also produced as a group effort with a bunch of us. Example, ross was doing a lot of the editing and one of our developers was doing a lot of the voiceover and was like taking a different approach to it and I wasn't as involved. It was actually while I was out on vacation before COVID started. I was actually in Breckenridge, colorado at the time, for a wedding when the world shut down and I made it out on one of the last flights out of Colorado back to Charlotte, north Carolina, and went immediately into lockdown.
Speaker 1:And the reason why we started it is because a lot of our jewelers were freaking out a little bit Not to say that I wasn't, I definitely was freaking out and it was a lot more about what's going on in the world. You know we talked a lot about the effects of the pandemic and also how jewelers could stay safe and how things that they could do while their stores were shut down. The reason why we were doing this is because, quite frankly, we thought the pandemic was only going to last a month, maybe two, maybe three. And then, you know, we did seven episodes and we quite quickly realized that this thing was going to be around for a little bit longer and we were getting tired and, quite frankly, it was quite depressing talking about the pandemic all the time and we didn't really want our name to be completely associated, you know, inextricably with, you know, sadness and disease and things like that. And we took a little pivot and we switched into In the Loop.
Speaker 1:And what a lot of people don't realize is that In the Loop, actually, for the rest of season one, which included a lot of episodes, along with the marketing company, the Smithy Group, who are partners for the first few seasons, these episodes were actually live, which is crazy to think about. We used to do them as a live stream. People could come in to the live shows and then we would edit them down and we would cut them together and make new episodes. Those episodes were all about marketing back in the day and they were much more about, like, how to get your social media numbers to new heights. That was our best episode of season one. You know what should I post on my social media of season one? You know what should I post on my social media? How you know, do I market through Facebook? What should I be doing for SEO? It's kind of funny because we've done the same SEO episode not an exaggeration probably five times over the years and it has been different every single time because SEO changes every year. It seems like I still can't believe it. It's like a moving target as soon as we talk about it, it changes and it was a really fun time and I learned increasingly that it was something I've always really liked.
Speaker 1:I used to host a podcast back in college called Ballpoint, and Ballpoint was all about art school, and it's not on the internet anymore. It was me interviewing design and art students and then interviewing them alongside design and art professors, so we would talk about you know, the value of our education. Do you need to go to school for art? And I think that my history of having hosted a podcast really allowed me to take the reins. And I think that punchmark people realized that putting out an episode every week was kind of a lot of work and they were kind of okay with me taking over a little bit more control and taking the reins and being like, all right, mike, you get this thing done. And at first I was like, oh, that's kind of a lot of responsibility. But in season two I really feel like I kind of came into my own. We're still producing it with the Smithy Group.
Speaker 1:But what was really cool is I signed on my first couple of sponsors. My first, earliest ones were Podium and the Edge, two of Punchmark's long-term partners, and the fact that they were even able to they were interested in giving us money in order to sponsor something that we were quite small even back then is pretty cool and it was a really awesome opportunity for us to, you know, for me, to bring in money, and it's so funny. I think that when I brought in my first couple of sponsors to Punchmark, I really think that that was when they were like, oh, this has some like, this has some legs and this has the ability to. What I always say is pull blood from the stone, and what that means is if you can create a new line of revenue at Punchmark, they've always been okay with you having a lot of creative control. There's no one that needs to have, no one needs to take credit for things at Punchmark, which I've always appreciated. It's a very much one of those kind of past the rock kind of vibes at Punchmark and I've always really appreciated that.
Speaker 1:You know, ross, even though he was, you know, the Jewelry Survival Kit was very clearly his baby in the beginning. The fact that he let me just take it and kind of rediscover the branding and kind of go with that was a really cool opportunity. And this is even back then in season two I was doing a lot of the episodes that I and this is even back then in season two I was doing a lot of the episodes that I still do. I think season two, episode 10, I interviewed small town jewelers and I talked to some of our clients about what it's like being a jeweler, a jewelry store, in a small town and I was doing let's Talk with Ring Buyers and talking about what the buying experience is, which is really cool, because I interviewed my brother, Steve, about his ring buying experience and talking to him and he now is married and has a baby, which is so cool, and we still talked a lot about marketing. But it was very much quickly going into more jewelry specific, and I think it wasn't until season three that I realized, all right, we should just go all in on just more jewelry specific. And I think it wasn't until season three that I realized, all right, we should just go all in on just being jewelry specific and really make this the podcast for the jewelry industry, and that's what we were doing. Season three was a little bit more kind of talking with a lot of vendors and trying to be creative about how we marketed things and doing different types of episodes, some of which were flops. If we're being honest, I think a couple of them were not as well received as I thought, and also I had a couple of vendors on and they didn't really understand that this wasn't a sales pitch. It was supposed to be a conversation, and that was just kind of something I had to learn how to communicate.
Speaker 1:Last year is when things really picked up. We had a couple of really big interviews last year. I interviewed the RJO board of directors. I also interviewed a couple of our clients and did our vlog style episodes, like when I went to RGO San Antonio, and that was really well received. I also was able to do some timely episodes, like I interviewed Stephen Barnes for his first exclusive interview as president of IGL and that's probably the first episode that really like. We picked up a lot of new listeners from that. Maybe that was even you that picked that up.
Speaker 1:And this year, you know we're almost done with season five. You know we're in the later half of you know, or we're just about to start Q4. And I still really like making this podcast. It's my favorite part of my job. I tell my bosses that very unashamedly that you know they pay me to be director of user experience at Punchmark and my favorite thing to do is podcast. But what it's allowed us to do is extend our voice in a very unique way. You'll hear later on in my conversation with Ross about how having a podcast at Punchmark has allowed us to touch our clients in very unexpected and more long-term ways and also in reverse.
Speaker 1:There's people that have become clients of ours that started out as podcast listeners and it allows for, like this kind of longer tail, as we say in marketing, where someone will, you know, be interested and we send them the podcast and then listen to the podcast and every single episode. You know it's going to be. You know, it's brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, michael Burpo, and it's kind of one of those things it allows us to be marketing. To be marketing. One of the things that's changed since season four is now every single episode has some type of internal punchmark sponsorship. That was a decision I made at the beginning of this year and everybody has taken it very well. We don't see a drop off in listenership right afterwards, and I appreciate that for you guys listening. One of the things that we've started speaking about in each of the episodes is when we're going to go to trade shows so if you're going, make sure you stop by or some of our partnerships, like when we launched a partnership with AccessiBe, or our new digital marketing packages, and us being able to do those types of internal upsells has allowed us to turn this into a marketing channel, which is to say, we now see Facebook and Google as a marketing channel, but we also have our podcast as a marketing channel. So, 200 episodes.
Speaker 1:What have I learned? How have I changed since then? Well, I wear a lot more jewelry, so there's that. One of the coolest things is I've developed a friendship with one of my guests, vincent from Arezzo. What's up, vincent? One of the coolest things about getting a chance to interview him a couple of times is I was able to work with him and have him engrave my ring with my family crest and that was a really cool project and I wouldn't have probably met him or developed a connection with him without this podcast.
Speaker 1:I've been able to meet a lot of people and interview a lot of people and learn so much about the jewelry industry and that's been really cool. People and learn so much about the jewelry industry and that's been really cool. I really like art and design and, by extension, jewelry, but what I really like about this podcast is how it allows me to speak with people from various far flung corners of the jewelry industry, and their stories are so fascinating, whether that's speaking with jewelry vendors, you know, getting a chance to hear about how they make jewelry and how they get a chance to, you know, put their souls into their designs, like I think the next episode after this one next week is going to be my follow-up interview with Birthright Foundry and hearing about how Constance Palamalo puts her experiences with her own heritage into her jewelry designs Very cool, and it's like a, it's a medium of jewelry that I I wasn't prepared to understand before I started interviewing jewelers, also hearing about retailers, they always say small businesses are the lifeblood of America though I have interviewed quite a few Canadian jewelers as well, but I think the sentiment is the same Jewelry or small town businesses and small businesses especially, not to say that if you're in a big city like San Francisco or New York city that you're any lesser. But hearing about these family businesses and how much history they have, uh, and what they mean to their communities, is so, uh, important and it has really kind of I think it's part of what has caused me to kind of fall in love with my own hometown. Uh, quite recently I was able to purchase a house in my hometown and move back and be part of something that I feel like is a community, and that is something that I wasn't really prepared for until you know, kind of just recently. I didn't really know that was going to be big for me. Hearing about how, for example, with the story of Dazzling Diamonds for Mom with David Douglas, david Douglas Diamonds and Jewelry, hearing about how Doug Meadows his experience of kind of putting the loss of his own mom into this.
Speaker 1:Writing competition and making it so that it was kind of more than the jewelry but it was a medium for telling the stories is something I'm trying to do more of. The more I interview people, I sometimes wonder and have this kind of fear, like, oh my gosh, have I talked to everybody? Like, have I gone through every single story and talked to every single vendor and every single retailer and tech company out there? And then someone shows me someone else who's doing something so cool and I'm like, of course, I haven't talked to everybody. There's more. There's always going to be more, and I think that's one of those things.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to keep making this podcast. I really love it. We're at 200 episodes. Who knows, maybe we do another 200. If we do another 200, that'll probably be in five years and I will be 34. I could probably still be doing that. Hopefully I haven't lost my voice. Hopefully the price of gold hasn't shot even further through the roof. You know, I think that I still will be interested in following the adaptation of technology to meet the needs of jewelers everywhere and I hope you're still listening. You know this has been a really cool opportunity. I hope that you stay with us for another 200, or maybe just until the end of this episode. I'll be speaking with a couple more people that have made this podcast what it is, so I hope you stick around.
Speaker 1:Thanks everybody for listening this episode, the first couple of episodes and the next 200 episodes. We'll keep it grinding. Thanks everybody. All right, everybody. We're going to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. A word from our sponsor. All right, everybody.
Speaker 1:It's time to select the winner of the In the Gem Loop giveaway presented by Pickup Media. We're giving away one of our gem loops. You've heard the ads for it. I've entered all of the submissions into this wheelofnamescom. It's a pretty cool feature online. I'm about to spin it for you right now. You can hear it spin, and the winner is going to be oh, wait for it, it's going to be Trevor Williams with Late Souls Jewelry. Oh, he was a guest on In the Loop and his favorite episode was William Jones from Sissy's Log Cabin. So I'll be reaching out to you shortly. Thanks everybody for participating, and if you're interested, you can always go to pickupmediacom to learn more about the gym loop or order your own. Thanks, everybody, and now back to the show and we're back. Ok, I'm joined by Ross Cockrum, ceo of Punchbar. How you doing today, ross, I'm doing good. Mike, how you doing I'm doing okay. Episode 200. Who would have thought we would have got here?
Speaker 2:200? That's insane. It's like a side hustle. It's officially a side hustle, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes it feels like a side hustle. I can't believe you guys pay me to make this. Sometimes I'm like, oh, this is so much fun. Like this is like my favorite part. Wait, we pay you to do this. Yeah, oh man, you guys didn't know that this is going on. Yeah, this is like actually a part of my job, I guess. Ross, I want to have bit about why we have a podcast in 2024 and how it kind of fits into our business cocktail of sorts, because right now we do have lots of mediums and I think some of them are kind of weirdly unique, to Punchmark at least ones I don't really see super commonly. For example, we have a Facebook group that's relatively active and we are always posting in it and we actually ask our employees to be a part of it as well, and we also I mean, we have marketing that goes out as well. But why are we having a podcast and like, what is the benefit of it in your eyes, at least in 2024?
Speaker 2:So good question, at least in 2024? So good question. First of all, podcasts. You know when they started? I would, I would guess circa 2003, 2001,. They were. They were Apple, was Apple had the iPod Back then it was like revolutionary ahead of its time. There were educational things going on from Apple itself and then, like I remember, even they had this thing called 92nd street Y, uh, from Manhattan, um, and like mostly centered around educational topics, um, but they brought in, brought in good, uh, good guests, good hosts, um. And so fast forward to today.
Speaker 2:Podcasts are like one of people's favorite media to get like, uh, you know, one of people's favorite media to get like, uh, you know, news sources, um, education, uh, entertainment, comedy, um, just staying on the up and up and sometimes, in this case for jewelry, like being very niche and very specific to a certain industry. So the why for us? Um, as you know, and as I know it's already covered on this same episode, um, when we started it, our why was literally because our clients were going to be panic stricken with like, oh, my God, like we got to shut the store down. What are we going to do? And I just listened back to like episode one, jeweler survival kit and it was like, you know, sammy's talking about, just like, how important the website is and and what, what a you know place's talking about, just like how important the website is and what, what a place for us to be Right, what a position for us to be, not just for, like, the business side and how everyone was like never before have have we and has a website of a jewelry store been so relevant, or any retail, any retail. So that was a whole. You know different, you know reason, where you know life hands you lemons and we made, you know, I guess, lemon scented hand sanitizer, but uh, you know, so that was a spin there.
Speaker 2:But now our why is, is has evolved right. Um, it's less doom and gloom. You know, I I hate using the word COVID. Sometimes I, I take a pause and I'm like, am I gonna, am I gonna go into the COVID story? So I don't like to, but but it is, it is part of the origination and you can't like ignore it.
Speaker 2:So today I listen to podcasts on my way to work, on my commute, I listen to podcasts sometimes when, when I'm on a run, I listen to them when I'm, you know, out and about put the ear ear pods in and just go. And so what's what's cool about sound and music and why I was, you know, in the in the music industry to begin with, some things that, like I re, there's nothing like being a kid, and this is a picture that I'll paint that I think a lot of people can identify with. You're looking out a back window with, in my case, 80s music playing, watching like the landscape move by you, you know grass and whatever telephone wires going up and down and you're listening to a song. That's like the soundtrack of the moment and there's something really cool about that vibe and that's the music side. But the audio side, having someone whispering in your ear while you're doing something like while you're working out, while you're on your commute to work there's something like you're you're invited to the conversation, um, it's like someone sitting in your passenger seat talking, you know, uh, perfect example, joe Rogan and Elon Musk sitting there talking about, you know, uh, astrophysics, astrophysics and rocket fuel in like getting to Mars, and they're sitting in your passenger seat.
Speaker 2:And so from an educational standpoint, from an entertainment standpoint, it's, it's a vital medium and for us, we we started it literally to give back to our clients to mainly help them not freak out during COVID, but to equip them with the tools that they need to compete in today's digital landscape, and the digital and physical landscapes are are one in the same. You know a hundred percent, maybe 99.9% of your new business will go to your website first, before they go in your store. And so when, when we can equip you with, uh, just having the digital wherewithal to make sure you can cater to that audience before they walk into your store and become foot traffic hopefully, um, then that that's our way of of kind of, you know, rising the tide for the community, you know, for the industry, yeah, I think it's like a audio branding we don't even have.
Speaker 1:You know, there we have a. Whenever we do branding for a client, we do style guides, and style guides is supposed to be this, this, like you know, the handbook, the Bible of what your brand's look is, and a lot of times you know it's. It can be everything from your colors to your logo mark and your lockup and all the way down to you know what your attitude is and things like that and what words. Are you the kind of brand that says you know, I bet, or are you the brand that's very formal and, like you know, uses appropriate punctuation On our end of things? We also have an audio branding and I mean I give a ton of credit to you because at the end of every episode, what did I say?
Speaker 1:This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cockrum, and it's because it's kind of weird that we just kind of happened on it. It was like, literally, you sent me three files. You're like, oh yeah, these are the old beats that we had and I picked one of them and it's awesome and I love that we have music and audio branding that was produced by our CEO and is also. It was very genuinely punchmark. It's like you know what are the words like hip hop. It's kind of got like a little bit of tech and like a vibe to it. You know it's serious but not too serious, and I like that all those kinds of things come along with it.
Speaker 1:I still have a laugh during episodes and I think that that is appropriate to what Punchmark is. If you come by our booths at different jewelry shows, a lot of the times we are having fun. I mean, we're younger, not as young as we were when we started this but we are people that I hope people want to have, you know, a drink with at the shows or not, and be able to kind of relate to. And I think that our audio branding is a reflection of that and allows the brand of Punchmark to reach further than if we didn't have one. Is that kind of?
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, and it goes. It goes without saying that an enormous part of our audio branding is is you and your voice and, quite honestly, thank God someone else took over as a host, cause, like I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't that good of a host, to be honest, like I I I didn't have a good segues Just a lot of time.
Speaker 2:I mean I would ask important questions and they'd be like yeah, and then like go to the next question. It's like that was terrible segue. But uh, anyway, you have that approachability, you have that like dude factor. You know what I mean and so you're right, it's like that, that kind of like hip hop um vibe that you know. I mean, dan, and I, you know, created hip hop before we founded punchmark, like years ago, decades, several, three of them ago, which is insane.
Speaker 2:But you know that that audio branding part is sort of a one of our cause, I think, and I think other people would agree, but of course I'm biased.
Speaker 2:But I think our brand is a cool brand. We have the cool tech blue, we have a nice logo that, dan you know, developed forever ago, Um, but the, the sound, the hip hop, the approachability, the tech, the, the youthfulness, um, I'll put I'll put myself into that category too, you know youthfulness and so but but yeah, I mean, it's the audio branding, it's, it's huge. And even your your little, uh, you know, kind of segue, your starting point of what is up, everybody you know, um, that's a huge part of it as well and that people um just know and expect to hear. So it's like, uh, it's, it's like a, a pattern interrupter of their day. They hear that and they're ready. They're ready to digest whatever we're throwing at them. So, um, yeah, absolutely, I think I love that. It has, you know, evolved into what it is today, that some people have, you know, called it, like you know, clearly, the best podcast in the industry and and obviously we say it's self-proclaimed, but other people say it too- it's a favorite podcast podcast Exactly.
Speaker 2:Who's showing the?
Speaker 3:scientific study on that one.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, who's showing the scientific study on that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, so yeah, it's, it's big. I'm honored to be a part of the, of its inception, of being one of the founders of the, of the pod, cause it's, it's. It's its own identity too, you know, aside from Punchmark, you know. But yeah, I mean huge, huge props to you for for bringing it to to where it is today. I mean huge, huge props to you for bringing it to where it is today. Your vision, your production ear and production eye and planning of who to interview, how to interview them, what questions to ask. You know it's huge. It's huge because people I mean I'll never forget too that RJO show, you and I were out at San Antonio and some woman came up to our booth and she's like talking to us and you know you're talking back to her, like, yeah, she goes, wait, say, say something again. And you were like, uh, yeah, and she goes. Oh, my god, you're Mike Burpo, you're the host of In the Loop. I can't believe.
Speaker 2:I'm talking to you and I was like, wow, they literally are getting, like you know, just blown away by the celebrity of mike you know what I mean and and uh. So I I thought that was. I thought that was pretty, pretty cool that you had celeb status like she, like she like legit, blushed like like when she found out it was you, wow, but um, but yeah, it's cool, it's cool stuff it's uh, it's one of those things.
Speaker 1:I think I really enjoy it, but I think we never really had to have a moment where we talked too much about what the goals are and what the kind of branding of it was. It's always been very fluid and very natural. A lot of it's just what my personality is it just comes into the microphone. But I really appreciate you guys giving me the latitude to kind of make those decisions. You know, whatever that is, I think that for a little while we were really formal. Sometimes every year I go back and I listen to one of the earliest episodes and I kind of just to see where the starting point was and kind of give myself a reality check.
Speaker 1:With this one I'll probably go back and find it and I think that we've never really had to kind of have a real check moment. And I wonder, you know, if we do this for another 200 episodes, 500 episodes more, where will this have changed? Will I have a deeper voice? Will I still have a laugh? I hope so, but at the same time, you never know. I think I still. There's so much about jewelry that I really am interested in, and I think the people are actually the part that I most enjoy, and I think that in 200 episodes or more I will probably be just as interested and I'll still enjoy talking to people. I hope you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, ross, thanks so much, and we'll continue with the rest of 200. Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:All right, happy 200, bud Nice work.
Speaker 1:So this is kind of crazy to record, but I'm actually going to be interviewing my editor, paul Suarez, for the first time, and I've actually never spoken with Paul before, but I speak with him over text every single week for the last five years and we, literally we almost never miss a week and because he edits, you know, an In the Loop episode all the time, he's probably heard me talk for hundreds of hours and I've never once spoken with him.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what he looks like. And he's going to come on this zoom here in a second and I'm going to get a chance to meet him and I think that that's going to be pretty cool. I've, uh, I've never gotten a chance to meet him before. I know he, he and Ross uh knew each other or work together, so that's who put me in touch and I guess he's a pretty prolific editor. So the chance to get to meet him is going to be a really cool one. It's kind of something. This is maybe more for me than it is for the listener, but I wanted to take you on this trip with me.
Speaker 3:What's up, Paul how?
Speaker 1:are you doing today? Nice to meet you? Apparently, nice to meet you, paul. Oh my gosh, I hope you don't mind, I'm recording this. No, no, man, this is wild, though I've uh, I was just. I was just recorded right before this and saying uh, we've talked for like every single week for for years now, but we've never, I've never once, gotten a chance to to speak with you, or I don't even know what you looked like and the fact that we get to meet. I want to do something special for episode 200 so cool yeah, yeah, I was.
Speaker 3:I was like we started emailing and then, like on the weekends, I was just like it'd be easy for you to just text them, and then we started texting and then we're probably, you know, on a, on a zoom call, like yeah, no.
Speaker 3:Paul uh correct me if I'm from New York and Ross I was an intern there. That's the first place I started at and Ross came in as an intern as well and immediately we hit it off. So that's how we kind of met and I stayed there for quite a bit later and then um, and then Ross left, but I always knew he was up to some big things. So I'm happy to hear that he's doing well and text him here and there and yeah, so cool.
Speaker 1:And you've done. Do you do music production or like recording recordings normally, or what is it that you do as a profession? I?
Speaker 3:do? I kind of do everything. So I'm a music producer, um, an editor, um I can write any kind of. If you need me to write songs, I can write songs for you, um. But also I can do tv stuff too as well. So I'm kind of like a jack of all trades kind of guy wow, and any podcast as well, just like this editing.
Speaker 1:So anything audio related I can pretty much do, and I've been doing it for going on 23 years now wow, and I think that ross told me that you had uh worked with some pretty, some pretty uh substantial artists at some point. I I don't know if he said lincoln park at one point lincoln park I worked with um paul mccartney, walbert soundtrack, where we worked together.
Speaker 3:I worked for this guy. The reason why I worked at Soundtrack is there's a producer his name is Andy Wallace and he was the guy I kind of wanted to work with and I got lucky to work with him for about 12 years. With him I worked with pretty much some of the top bands like Korn and Wow oh, I guess I had Paul McCartney Any of the 90s or 2000s, early 2000s rock bands I kind of worked with.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Were you in the studio with them?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so awesome. I guess I've always heard like stories about how every producer kind of has like their own, certain kind of vibe or like you know, they run their studio kind of like an as an extension of their own personalities and like, for example, with I think it's Pharrell Pharrell one, and a lot of times people kind of gel with the you know the vibe just as much as they do with the the music production aspect of it, and it's kind of like you get that as part of the the production yeah, exactly, I think I think one of the most important things I would tell younger coming up producers or engineers is rule number one is just have a good time with the client.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the clients don't like you. You're never gonna get work again with them. Um, not that saying you should lack on your production work once you know you're good at what you do and and that part you don't really have to worry about too much. A lot of it is just personality. It's about how you get along with the artist and and I would say that 75% of the time they call you back. It's just so cool because I've seen many people just like they're not just vibing together and they're just like, all right, let's get rid of this guy. And interesting, yeah, yeah, so you know most most of the good producers are very well how to how to deal with artists, you know, but every artist is different. Yeah, but I've been ran and into too many artists that are kind of a pain. Usually everyone's pretty.
Speaker 3:Speaking about Pharrell, I've worked with Pharrell on, I think, an NERD record. I worked with him on one record. I worked at Electric Lady Studios for a little bit and I did a record with him. I was assisting him. He was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1:He was actually one of the coolest producers to work for. He was really, really nice guy down there he's he's one of those, uh, creatives that I definitely see as like a north star, because he seems to be like you know what I mean by like medium agnostic. It's like, you know, it doesn't matter what he's going to do, whether he's you know, producing, uh, you know singing, um, he plays a million instruments and now he's he he's the creative director for LVMH, which is in Spain, and it's just like that's kind of how I see like true creatives, it doesn't really matter what medium they're using, they're going to find a way to make it, you know, incredible and stand out and all those things. And that's kind of what I try to do is it's not about being a graphic designer or a podcaster, it's about just being creative and really talented and all those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:And that's how he was like. He's very like. He's not one of these guys that slacks around. Like he comes in, he shows up on time which is amazing and you know he works his butt off until the end of the day. It could be eight hours, it could be 12 hours and it'll just be a repeat. Like he, eight hours, it'll be 12 hours and it'll just be a repeat.
Speaker 1:He won't miss. He'll come in right on time. So I'm not surprised where he's at in his life. He's definitely deserving of what he does in his life. Yeah, now, paul, you've edited. I think you weren't on the first three episodes. I think that we're, or maybe you came in midway through episode three, but so that's 197 episodes. At this point You've heard my voice a lot. Can you tell me, like are there any things that you've noticed about the episodes or anything that you've noticed over the years about like things I do that's annoying, like do I do you ever notice, like because you have to hear like the unedited clips where, like I do like the talk before we actually get into the recording, and usually it's very like casual, but uh, do you like just fast forward through those and find the the clap so that you can sync it up?
Speaker 3:at this point I can figure you out pretty well.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that there's nothing to do, annoying. The good thing that you what you do as well is like when I start editing the episode not the intro, the main episode once you start asking questions or start saying what you think it's very rarely editing of your stuff because you're very well just speaking once in a while, like if you say word twice in a row, whatever, like I'll take it out, but sometimes I leave it in just for it depends on how how it sounds, sometimes even just for normalness, you know. So you don't sound like a robot or anything like that, and the only other thing I would do with you is just maybe if there's a little long of a pause, I'd just move it over and tighten it up a bit so it sounds, you know, not not too many pauses, but no, you're pretty good man I appreciate that it's so funny.
Speaker 1:Uh, one of the things that I almost like you being like this hidden character in there, because in the, in the recordings, you leave them in a lot of the times now, but in the beginning I'd be like, oh, can you edit in a ding right here, and I would just be like, and then it would, you would put it in and I was like, oh, that's so cool. It's like a man behind the curtain gets to kind of be revealed occasionally. And at this point you know you've been in many, so many episodes that I think you, out of all the people besides myself, I think you probably understand like what the, the audio branding of this thing is like. I don't want it to be too polished, I don't want it to be, you know, we don't have to trim out the conversation for the most part, I think, early on.
Speaker 3:I would say in the I can't believe it's starting 200 episodes and I think maybe like in the first third, like the first 50, I would tighten things up too much or stuff. I've been getting a little more loose towards the end it sounds a little better to me. I don't know, I think so. I don't know how you feel about it, but anytime we can do. The funny thing is my brother like anytime you want, like a sound effect or anything, like my brother he's, he's, uh, he's a film mixer and and sound effects guy crazy.
Speaker 3:So we asked for something. I just call him. I'm like, can you give me this? He just sends over a whole bunch of them and I just start fitting them in, which is pretty funny oh, that's wild. I didn't know that anytime we get to do the stuff again, I like it. It gets. It gets me excited, yeah yeah, we like did the?
Speaker 1:uh the episode before this one I think it's actually going to be probably included in this one uh, with the uh the random wheel spinner and he dropped in the sound and I was like, oh man, that sounds way better than the recording I use, because mine had like very quiet.
Speaker 3:My brother sent me a whole bunch of them and I took that as someone that fit best. But it's kind of cool. But also it's kind of like like throughout, like all these episodes, you'd always, like once in a while, mentioned my name and like nobody knows, like you said, who I am or anything. So it's cool doing this, so like like I do exist people.
Speaker 1:So cool man. Well, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate you being involved and working with you. It's so easy because you get everything back really quickly. I don't think out of 200 episodes, I think there's only been a handful of times where I've ever needed to to change something. It's usually because I forgot to let you know ahead of time. So having someone that kind of gets the idea and understands the big picture is is really appreciated and super, super helpful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, this has been fun, like let's keep going. It's hell, yeah. And also like I don't know if you know, like I've been learning a lot, I listen to the episodes while I'm doing it, like you probably know, jenna. So much about the jewelry, about this like seo stuff, like I never knew, like how all this stuff worked, and it's so, it's so, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of cool for me to kind of learn some new stuff oh, how cool is that?
Speaker 1:I never I do what's crazy. I never once thought about that. But you probably have, like all this random jewelry knowledge in your in the back of your head about jewelry trends.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly. It's pretty cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, Paul. I really appreciate you being involved and and being on this thing for 200 episodes. Cheers to the next 200. Yes, man, likewise. Absolutely. All right, everybody. That's the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening. My guests this week was Paul Suarez and Ross Cockrum, who happened to be the producer of the music and also our editor. How cool is that? This episode was brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, michael Burpo. You can leave us feedback on punchmarkcom slash loop that's L-O-U-P-E, and leave us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It's the best way to help us grow. Thanks so much and we'll see you in the next one. Cheers, bye, thank you.
