In the Loupe
In the Loupe
Pearls, Pearls, Pearls ft. Matt Harris
Pearls are one of the oldest, most influential gems the world has ever known with a rich history dating back well over 5,000 years. Matt Harris shares his passion for this unique gemstone and explains how fashion trends surrounding the gem have shifted in the last 100 years, where he predicts they will head in future years, and how jewelers can ensure they are buying quality pearls that will sell.
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Welcome to In the Loop. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop this week. I'm joined by Matt Harris and he is a pearl expert, and we're talking all about pearls, whether it's about the cultivation process and the historical significance of pearls. We're also talking about fashion styles and trends that have come and gone throughout the years, as well as why he hopes that more men start wearing pearls. It's a really cool conversation. You can tell how passionate he is about the topic and it definitely comes through in the microphone. I really hope you enjoy and maybe you consider wearing pearls today, enjoy, enjoy.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. I'm joined by Matt Harris. He is our resident expert on pearls. How are you doing today, matt? Hey, I'm great. Thanks, I'm so excited to get a chance to speak with you. This is kind of continuing my education in the jewelry industry. Lately I've been trying to bring on more experts to educate me and through me, the audience, on different parts of the jewelry industry and specifically how retailers take advantage of them, mainly because I think a lot of us, a lot of retailers, are super deep into diamonds and engagement and things like that, and I love to find a way to sort of diversify that and sort of give other options and educate everybody along the way. So, matt, can you talk to me just a little bit about pearls and why you're so excited about them?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I can. They really are the most interesting, influential and important gems the world has ever known, and I'm going to say that above diamonds and sapphires and rubies and you name it. The history is incredible and they're the oldest gem as far as records of gems being worn as jewelry. This dates back to over 3000 BC. So it's just the history is unreal with pearls, Not to mention. I just think it's really cool that it's the only gem that comes from a living creature.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is really cool, and so is this. Did you come at it from a like a retailer, like jeweler perspective, or was this more of like from a gemological kind of perspective?
Speaker 3:You mean, what kind of what got me interested in pearls? Yeah, exactly, neither. Really, it wasn't at all so it can't. How about from a retail consumer perspective? So when I got married 29 years ago, we decided to get pearls for the bridesmaids for gifts, because we thought pearls were cool, but I didn't know anything about them. My fiance didn't know anything about them, and so me, being the learning geek that I am, I'm the type of guy that, like, if I'm going to buy like a car, I need to know everything about that car first, right, or a computer, you name it right. I love to shop, and so I volunteered to shop for them and I, just like any other consumer, uh, was just interested in knowing what I'm getting. I wanted a good deal. I didn't know if I was going to get ripped off. I want to make sure they were real or treated.
Speaker 3:I knew nothing about pearl, so I started cruising around stores and this is before the internet, you guys. I mean this is when it was like prodigy and compuser I don't know if you know what those are, michael, but no, yeah, yeah, it's, it's the beginnings of the internet. Anyways, for the old people listening, you'll get that. Um, so I was just literally went to stores and what I realized is that the people that were selling pearls didn't really know much about them and that was really interesting to me and I just got fascinated with them because I figured there's a lot to learn. And it just stuck with me for years and years and years and I actually didn't get really into the business for another 20, well, almost 30 years later. I just they were a hobby. So I started as a consumer, just out of interest. They were a hobby, so I started as a consumer, just out of interest, wanting to learn.
Speaker 1:Now sort of set this up for me, because I'm definitely very much an amateur. I actually bought a set of pearls when I lived in the city and I was at a jewelry show and I was like, oh, maybe I'm going to be, you know, interested in wearing pearls, mainly because, for example, harry Styles, very famously in 2019 at like a Met Gala, wore a set of pearls. And I was like, oh, guys can wear pearls. And it was like sort of changed the landscape or it felt like it did away from being classy.
Speaker 1:I feel like pearls have always gotten this thing about like, oh, they're just super, like you wear them with like a black dress. Pearls have always gotten this thing about like, oh, they're just super, like you wear them with like a black dress. And then it was like, oh, maybe they're kind of along the lines of like forgive the analogy, but kind of like a Cuban link. You know where it's like, oh, it could go with anything. It sort of feels like it's settled into like somewhere in between. Do you feel where do you think that pearls are sitting in the modern kind of eye and fashion today?
Speaker 3:Wow, that is such a good question and if you're a retailer listening to this, this is really important Because, yes, yes, exactly what you. The way that you envision pearls at the beginning of that, historically, historically, is the way that a lot of people do still, and that is that pearls are meant for either like the power woman, or the wedding, or the fancy, elegant sort of event. So think about pearls right now. If you guys were to close your eyes, think about pearl, what do you picture? Most people that are listening to this well, we got a lot of jewelers listening to this, so it may be a little bit different. Pearls right now.
Speaker 3:If you guys were to close your eyes, think about pearl. What do you picture? Most people that are listening to this well, we got a lot of jewelers listening this, so, maybe a little bit different. But most people in general think of audrey hepburn or the queen, or barbara bush, you know, or something like that. Uh, and that's where pearls have been for the last hundred years, and the reason they've been that way is because, well, you know movies like Audrey Hepburn, you know Breakfast at Tiffany's, et cetera, they become kind of the power, elegant, sort of. You know, look, and when you think of pearls, you also probably thought of round and white.
Speaker 1:Round and white, which is not the case, I've learned.
Speaker 3:My mom went to it's not the case, very, very, very few pearls around maybe about 5% if you talk to, like, the saltwater farmers and there's many, many colors of pearls, not just white. At first I thought we're going to do a video, so I brought some like really cool colors. So on my desk you guys imagine me holding up all these cool colors and shapes of different pearls. But see, that's the perception. What happened with harry styles is two things for you, uh, number one uh, he tends to wear round white pearls when he wears them, but he wears pearls like every day. But he's also a man wearing pearls, right. And so now it's finally shifting.
Speaker 3:People are starting to realize, through a little bit of pearl education and through seeing, you know, the celebrities, et cetera, that pearls don't have to be stuffy, they don't have to be perfectly elegant, they absolutely can be. They don't even have to be around, they don't have to be white and they don't have to be worn by women to be worn by women. So, thankfully, a store, now a jeweler and even like just a fashion boutique, can have pearl jewelry that can be everyday wear for anybody casual pearls and jeans Fantastic. Yeah, I wear pearls every day. Right now I'm wearing a single pearl Tahitian necklace and then I've got a pearl bracelet on with a bunch of Tahitians on a stretchy cord.
Speaker 1:So when you use the word Tahitian, is that like an area that they're being sourced from, or is that describing the type of pearl?
Speaker 3:That is another great question. It's kind of the term people use for pearls that come from French Polynesia, I see, and Tahiti is in French Polynesia but French Polynesia the pearl, and Tahiti is in French Polynesia but the French Polynesia the pearl growing region is extremely vast, with pearl farms scattered all over the place, not really even in Tahiti or the island of Tahiti, but in islands, you know, in the area, but people tend to just call them Tahitian pearls and when you think of Tahitian pearl, think of the black pearls that's another nickname people have for Tahitians black pearls, although they can be light gray you know, all sorts of grays, up to deep black, and they can have overtones that are really beautiful purples and greens, and they're gorgeous.
Speaker 1:And that's what's so cool, is that there is so much personality to them. It's in a similar vein as when you tell people that, uh, that diamonds can be different colors other than you know flawless white, or you explain to them that sapphires can be other colors other than blue. It just kind of seems like it blows their mind. Sometimes my mama came back from Vietnam and she had a, had a black or got a black pearl there and I was like wow, I had never seen one that was so just striking and different feeling than what I've been previously trained to see. Can you talk to me about what the factors are that could increase the value of a pearl versus what you were talking about with the everyday wear, more standard, kind of run of the mill. The everyday wear, you know, more standard, kind of run of the mill.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the other interesting thing about pearls nowadays too. Over the last oh you know it's been a few decades, but the Chinese have been making freshwater pearls, where they have these mollusks that are really huge and you can get 20, 30, 40 pearls at one time and you can grow them quick. And so, as a result, there's been a massive amount of freshwater pearls that have come onto the market and pearls now can be really affordable. I have a website, matt Harris Designs, and we sell pearls gosh as low as $30 up to $30,000 or more. But there's a whole bunch of necklaces that are beautiful, that are freshwater, that are, you know, $100, $200. So they're very, very approachable.
Speaker 3:The value factors I always say it's like anything, and that is that the prettier it is, the more expensive it's going to be right.
Speaker 3:So think of that with a car or, you know, a girlfriend or whatever it happens to be, you know, and the great thing is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? Same thing with cars and girlfriends, but in general, humans tend to like pretty things, and pretty pearls are. Think of this round. We tend to like things that are perfectly round, shiny, right. So those are pearls with like really nice, nacre, quality, thick, nacre, that you know it's kind of metallic, like that you can actually see yourself in like a mirror, colorful we like pearls that, maybe even the white pearls that have like what they call orient. When you move them around it kind of looks like when you blow a bubble and you see the, the greens and the pinks kind of skimming around the the top surface of the pearl. So, uh, pearls if it's, and big, we like things big. So if pearls are big, perfectly round, very lustrous, thick, nacre, great nacre, quality, blemish, free and a beautiful color, you just found yourself a very expensive pearl.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting kind of perspective on it.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It's similar in that way as diamonds, because theoretically I've heard of people going to like these diamond mines and like they're able to find, albeit very low quality, diamonds that are a point of a carat, but in the end it is a diamond, but like what makes like a really expensive one. It's like, oh man, you could have one. That's, you know, not even a carrot and it's worth, you know, more than my house, that kind of thing yeah, and think of pearls like uh, clarity, right, so a uh i1 pearl is going to be a pearl.
Speaker 3:that's got a fair amount of you know pits on it. Uh, that's visible to the eye and when you look at it you can kind of see it's got these fair amount of you know pits on it that's visible to the eye and when you look at it you can kind of see it's got these blemishes and pits, et cetera. You know where it's, like you know VVS is going to be. You're going to sit in there and like move it around in your hand and look at it and you just can't really see anything wrong with this thing. You know, maybe you get it under magnification and you'll find a little blemishing. So that's an interesting analogy that I just came up with now that you mentioned it. But it kind of makes sense for you, for you diamond guys, think of it that way, yeah.
Speaker 3:And do people buy the I1 diamonds? Yeah, and do people buy blemished pearls? Absolutely. And you know, I sold a South Sea golden yellow pearl necklace recently Sea Golden Yellow Earl Necklace recently and it was, I think, like $7,000. Now if you looked at it from a distance, like if you and I were standing, you know, three, four, five feet away from each other, you'd look at me wearing these and you say, well, there's really beautiful, big round South Sea golden pearls. But if you got close you'd notice that they all had a moderate amount of blemishes to them. And now that strand would have been $30,000 if it would have been clean is what they call it. But with little blemishes you can save money. So, similar to diamonds, when people are buying you got to think price point, budget, you know. And what's important to people Is it the size. Some girls or guys people like a big diamond, some people want the clarity, some people want the color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I guess that's a really good point. So, for retailers that are listening, I'm always interested in kind of you know, value shopping and what is it that you can kind of skimp on if to get more than what might be in your budget initially. And, for example, my friends talk to me about jewelry because they know I work in jewelry and they're always asking about diamonds and they're always saying, oh, what can you do to get like a better diamond than what you can afford? Well, I always tell them you could either get a lab grown diamond or you could get things that are more flawed or have inclusions in them. If they kind of fall in a certain range, then they're only ever going to be seen if you were to put them under a loop. Is that true for pearls? And what is it that you could kind of corner cut a little bit to get a better set of pearls than maybe your budget would allow for? For?
Speaker 3:well, I'm kind of lucky personally, because you know how we talked about beautiful things being expensive. I I literally have sweatshirts and shirts that say this on the back I had a mate and it's big lettering. It says I like them big and baroque. So baroque pearls aren't. Is it so? Broke meaning not, um, you know, round and symmetrical. Uh. So Baroque is something that I love and I personally would rather wear a Baroque-shaped necklace than a round pearl necklace, and it costs a lot less money, so shape could be one of those things.
Speaker 3:Sometimes pearls, especially if they're strung in a strand, the only way you can really tell if they're round is you put them on like a flat surface and roll them, and if they kind of wibble, wobble a little bit, then they're not round, they're near round, and quite often pearls will look round. Although they're not Now near round, pearls are going to be less expensive than the same type being round. So that's another way that I think that you can kind of save a little money as well is to buy some that aren't perfectly round, because it's so hard to notice sometimes by looking at them or any of those. It just depends what you're into. I really don't mind a few blemishes.
Speaker 3:You know, I personally don't prefer to look at like pitted pearls. I would rather skimp on the shape or the size or you know the, but it just depends. Yeah, everybody's got their own taste. But there are ways that you can kind of save a little bit of money and there are. The purest as there are are with diamonds, that or any gemstone that. Just they've got to have the unheated salon sapphire, you know.
Speaker 1:Uh, with perfect cut proportions and I've always been of the opinion that who who cares about like some of those, uh, you know, very shop specialty like you know, um, what makes it extra, extra expensive? I've never been really into that. Where it's like, oh, it's unheated, I'm like, well, if it's beautiful when it's heated, I'd rather, you know, I guess it doesn't really matter to me, as long as it still looks beautiful on their hand or, you know, on their body, and I guess that's one of those things it's like. You know, if there are some of these like ways that they can make things look maybe more beautiful and make it maybe more attainable or affordable for certain people, I'm very much of the opinion that I think it's better for people to be able to have those things if they wouldn't normally. Is that something that you have to educate jewelers on, on ways to kind of talk about pearls in a way that makes it more attainable or understandable for a shopper?
Speaker 3:Yes, I ran a retail jewelry store for about four years. I left there about two two years ago and to focus solely on this now, on pearls and but me being a pearl lover, we carried a lot of pearls and I would tell people on the jewelry groups online etc. Uh, you get in the conversations with jewelers all the time, the trade shows and whatnot and your cocktail hour and you talk pearls and they're like, oh, we never sell pearls, like nobody's buying pearls, it's so hard to sell pearls. And I tell them I literally would sell pearls every day, and multiples some days. And people say, how is that even possible? And it's really your education and your mindset as a jeweler and your selection. So I'm going to generalize.
Speaker 3:I'm sure this isn't the case with everybody, of course, but most stores, when it comes to their pearl selection jewelry stores, they're going to have that case and it's going to be some perfectly round small okoyas like a necklace or two. It's going to be some round studs, studs. It may be, if you're lucky, like a Tahitian round, you know, a pendant or a strand and that's kind of it. There really isn't much else. And so if you want people to, this goes to your point that you're just talking about. It's something for everybody and every price point and not necessarily going for the perfect. You know stone that if it's heated, whatever. Same with pearls. If I can, let somebody have the experience of buying a hundred dollar pearl freshwater necklace and they're going out there and they're wearing it all the time and somebody sees them and they like, wow, that's cool. Oh yeah, it's freshwater pearls, you can go get them for $100.
Speaker 3:It goes, it perpetuates, and then people start being comfortable with wearing pearl fashion. They start wearing it in casual environments and then the whole world of pearl fashion kind of comes up along with this. Because a lot of those people are now more familiar with pearls, more comfortable buying pearls and guess what? They're going to start buying higher-end pearls. With pearls we're comfortable buying pearls and guess what? They're going to start buying higher end pearls. So in my store we would have on the countertop not even underneath this display of pearl earrings and then we maybe have maybe 10 or 15 different designs that range from $35 to $65 freshwater pearls. We'd sell those all day long and you know what? A lot of those people will come back later and buy a pearl necklace or eventually, a South Sea strand for $8,000 or whatever. So I think getting them in the hands of many people as possible is great, and you don't have to sell just high end when it comes to pearls.
Speaker 1:Ah, I really love that approach. In my opinion, I am very much anti-gatekeeping when it comes to especially the jewelry, but just fashion in general. I am very much anti-gatekeeping when it comes to, uh, to especially the jewelry, but just fashion in general. I feel like you. I I hate rules when it comes to, uh, just any type of art, but especially when it comes to fashion, I, I just am like any example that you show me. I will do my best to find you a counter example on why you could do that, you know.
Speaker 3:I agree with you, except that I saw on Facebook yesterday or Instagram, a video of a fashion show, and it's where they dress people up in musical instruments. So they had this one lady standing like in a drum and another one was like her head was poking out the top of a cello, and I can't go that far.
Speaker 1:You know what, if that's where we draw the line, I think we're going to do it.
Speaker 3:That's where I draw the line.
Speaker 1:I think we're gonna draw the line yeah, all right, everybody, we're gonna take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor mother's day is coming up.
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Speaker 1:And we're back, matt, you were talking about that. The more common kind of versions are, you know, pearl strand necklace and maybe bracelets that for all intents and purposes are just a smaller necklace, you guess you could say, or maybe a solitaire pendant and maybe some studs. Are there any other kind of trends that you're kind of starting to pay attention to that might be not falling into those main categories that you think are exciting and maybe should be watched out for?
Speaker 3:Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned because I didn't talk about it too much but a store. Right now, I think what's hot in the pearl world pearl strands are always going to be there and everybody should have a pearl strand I think men too. We'll talk about that in a minute. But as far as pearl jewelry, it's a lot easier to get people into pearl jewelry, I think if you are carrying kind of modern designs where you've got metal uh and something small, so like a, a gold chain with a single pearl pendant or drilled right through the pearl with some grommets and and something like that. Or we have a chain that has a one pearl and then another one kind of drops down and it's adjustable so you can kind of make it go up and down your chest. Oh cool, so little things like that that are just have like a dainty pearl, a pendant or yeah, studs are always going to be popular, but I think mixing metals with gold and making them more fashionable. We have station necklaces that are very popular, where we just have silver stationed with inexpensive pearls and we make them like 36 inches long so you can double them up if you want. Those are a lot of fun too, because you're seeing the girls go out and wear those you know like with the jeans. So I'd say that's a trend that I would stick to if I was a store and wanted to increase pearl sales and, of course, always have a few strands. But I'm most excited about men in pearls and I am the biggest proponent of that, and if you go to my Instagram channel or my YouTube, we're talking about it all day long.
Speaker 3:So you mentioned Harry Styles. You can always count on him. I did a story the other day on aj mclean from the backstreet boys. He's always wearing pearls. Now too. Uh, asap rocky, um, the dave bautista. You know the really big dude from guardians of the galaxy.
Speaker 3:yeah, formerly wrestler yeah yeah, he wore like a triple strand Mikimoto Akoya necklace to Toronto Film Festival recently, for example. It goes on and on. I can tell you a lot of guys wearing pearls. Rod Stewart, every performance. Now he's wearing pearls. He's I suppose I haven't seen him, but all my friends are telling me he's rocking it at like 77 or something Very cool. It goes on and on and on.
Speaker 3:Men in pearls and boy I tell you I'm in some of these jeweler groups and some of you that are going to listen to it I'll bet you're in some of the groups that I'm in online and all you got to do is mention men in pearls and there's 500 comments and people are talking about how horrible it is and dumb and this and that and men should never wear pearls. The other side of it is like absolutely, pearls are hot on guys and I mean I literally wear one every day and I have for years. But something about that that everybody should know. And if you're a retailer and this comes up, it'll be kind of fun to tell your customers about this that pearls have only become almost strictly feminine over the last hundred years. So, and it was because they started culturing pearls, making pearls, around 1900. And you guys all know Mikimoto. He's kind of considered the grandfather of culture pearls, although some people technically did it before him. He really figured out a way to make a lot of culture pearls and so you had these small white round pearls coming out in the 1910s, 20s and 30s and then you had the you know, the Audrey Hepburns. Like I was saying, coco Chanel started making the faux pearl necklaces and that became a big thing in the right after Prohibition. So they quickly became feminized. Before 1900, yes, a lot of females would wear pearls.
Speaker 3:You look at any art museum and go to the Queens they're wearing pearls. But guess what? Go check out the pictures of the kings they're wearing pearls too. Type in Google Henry VIII later on and find a picture of him not wearing pearls. Right, king Charles, I wore a pearl in his ear that he got for a present when he was 15 years old. Literally wore it every day until his beheading King Charles II. King Charles III probably doesn't know it, but in the Imperial Crown actually has four pearls that date back to the 1400s, back at Pope Clement's time, and men and pearls were a thing.
Speaker 3:Julius Caesar used to have a party trick where he would like hold a pearl and tell you how much it weighed. That was kind of his bragging thing. I'll give you one more example His greatest general, general Pompey. He was known as Pompey the Great or the Teenage Butcher, because this guy was so ruthless that when he would conquer different peoples, he would like literally have them cut up. When he would conquer different peoples, he would like literally have them cut up. So he single-handedly turned Rome into an empire by conquering seven what they called continents at the time. They were kind of like regions. Anyways, when he conquered the last one, he, to celebrate, had himself made like a replica of himself out of pearls and he paraded it around town for two days and everybody was talking about what a massive display of wealth this guy and coolness. You know that's portrayed. He was like badass, right, and this was like one of the most ruthless men in the world. Oh, one more.
Speaker 3:If you guys have heard of the Maharaja, they were in India. So the country was split up under English rule with these regions and you have kind of like a king of each region. They're called Maharaja. But if you type up Maharaja you're going to see that they all wore pearls too and just a lot of them. So men and pearls is a thing it always has been. It just kind of got off track a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's a really interesting series of examples, mainly because they are just a little bit more historical as opposed to modern.
Speaker 1:And you're the ones that you had started off this episode talking about with Audrey, with Audrey Hepburn, and you know the queen and the.
Speaker 1:All the examples of modern day are these, you know, very striking or famous women. I wonder if, to me, harry Styles at least for me and my friends and like the people I speak with friends and like the people that I speak with he's the most recent like recognizable ambassador for for pearls on men, and I wonder if that will continue, whether you know how hard would it be to kind of make that be your calling card? I guess it would, you know. It remains to be seen if, if Harry Styles keeps on doing that and more people follow suit. But I would love it if, yeah, if more examples, not just people that are have their feet firmly planted in fashion the way that I believe Harry Styles kind of does, but if more people from various levels of celebrity, like Dave Bautista does and A$AP Rocky those are all super cool examples of like people that aren't necessarily fashion first, but more examples of using jewelry to kind of amplify your image and message a little bit more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know it makes me think of here's an example of just a normal guy and pearls. I was going to sell my pickup truck recently and my assistant whose name is Pearl, weirdly enough has a friend that does mobile detailing. So she mentioned this to him because I needed to clean it up right before I put it out for sale and he suggested he says, well, what if I trade Matt a detail job for a strand of pearls? So, sure enough, this is like a $200-something detail job and I custom made him a white strand of pearls and then we have these literally frost pearls, so they're pearl-shaped as crosses and I put one in the middle with some like a few gold balls around it beads. It was so awesome, this thing, uh, and he and this guy's just a tough dude and and he's out there rocking this thing, uh, and it's awesome that's a really cool example.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, what's what's interesting is you were talking about different types of pearls and then we were talking about ways you can get a. You know around that, for example. But you also mentioned cultured versus uncultured pearls. My grandma, like she always wore uncultured. I think it was like a triple strand of uncultured pearls, you know, like the ones they kind of always. I always thought that they looked like rice or like beans and they were kind of like strangely shaped, and my mom always told me it was because they were more affordable. Is that? Do you think that that has gone through like it's the waves of vogue and might be due to come back? Or is that something? It's been passed up because you know, farming, culture, pearls is so much more, you know, attainable and easy to do these days.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm trying to answer that without getting into a two-hour segment on it.
Speaker 1:Let it rip. Come on, matt, we got time.
Speaker 3:No, I don't want to scare people away. So we can dig into this stuff on different episodes and YouTube and stuff, but in general, first let me say this that, because everybody should know this and there's confusion, because when people will come into my store and I'm sure they come into your store too, if you're listening to this as a retailer and they have the terms confused, so they'll say are those pearls real or do you have natural pearls? And when they say do you have natural pearls, what they are meaning is they're not fake, they're not plastic, they're not glass, right? So here's a quick 101 on the terminology.
Speaker 3:So in the pearl world there is cultured pearls and there's natural pearls, and so that's it. Cultured, natural, natural pearls are pearls that think of, like the old romantic, you know diving deep, you know, yeah, you know picking up some random oyster and bringing it up and you opening it up and it's a pearl. It's a pearl, and that's the way all pearls were before 1900. It's just all those kings and queens. They'd have to go through thousands, sometimes 10,000 oysters just to get one pearl. So they're very rare and that's the way they've always been through history, until Mikimoto and some other guys came around. They figured out how to culture them. So a culture pearl is a pearl that's made with, with humans, help. A natural pearl is a pearl that's made just as a result of nature, so human intervention or help and complete natural. So um, culture pearls then are a human inserting a bead or a piece of what they call mantle tissue, or inserting the irritant into the mollusk and that, that irritant I say that because muscle mollusks don't really have a central nervous system like do they? We do so they don't feel pain, but anyways, this irritant, the mother of pearl, the nacre, is built around this and creates a pearl. So in nature it usually happens as a result of a parasite that kind of moves its way into the, into the mollusk, and then plants itself and that parasite becomes like the irritant and again with humans, we're literally inserting something in there. So those are your two terms natural pearl, cultured pearl.
Speaker 3:Now, the pearls that you're talking about, I don't see those small kind of Rice Krispie pearls coming back. There's a few different things. One of them is there is a place called lake biwa, japan. That would make a lot of those uh back and they got really heavily polluted. I believe must have been like the 60s or 70s, if I recall. I don't recall because I was too young, but you know, recall reading about uh, and they made a lot of those kind of rice crispy pearls.
Speaker 3:And then the chinese started coming up with with cultured freshwater pools. Now they weren't putting beads like they do in the round pearls into the mollusk, they were putting a little piece of tissue that would kind of jump start the nacre creation process. And these, back at the beginning, when they started these decades ago, they were always tiny and kind of crappy and not really shiny or lustrous. And they produce a whole bunch of them. They'd have individual farmers even like converting their rice patties into a pond in their backyard and creating these. And so the Chinese freshwater pearls were very small, kind of weird shaped, not very lustrous, and ultra cheap. Now even the Chinese have changed, where now, generally speaking, they're going to concentrate more on higher quality, less better quality. They're even nucleating them with beads and you're getting big pearls and round pearls and pearls that are actually of much higher quality than they used to be.
Speaker 1:So I've got drawers full of like those old pearls, uh, but no, you don't really see them on the market anymore yeah, it's always really interesting because so you say like, oh, they were originally found, or like pearls were originally, you got to dive in, you got to go through all of these, uh, these mollusks and just to get one, and that inherently makes the rarity, makes the value. Uh, there there's a like, almost like a correlation between them. However, they figured out a way to kind of I don't want to say man make, but sort of um, these, these pearls and man, in saying that out loud, it sure sounds a lot like lab-grown diamonds, it sure does. But for some reason people don't seem to draw that line in that, you know, if I was to go and find a pearl just by shucking a ton of oysters and then I find one, and it would be like, wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:But it's not like it's more rare, uh, or valuable, just because I pulled it out of an oyster myself by happenstance. Um, it's kind of almost like along the lines of like, I don't know, like, uh, having having gone and found my, found my own, uh, gemstone, you know, out in nature myself, and then, like, went and cut it myself. It's such a. It's interesting that sometimes those rules apply to other gemstones as opposed to, you know, with pearls. I find that very confusing. I find that very confusing.
Speaker 3:I'd have to kind of have to dive into that and kind of wrestle with that in my brain to make that, you know, completely rationalized I guess. Yeah, well, there's some differences there. You can go to Sunstone Butte, you know, mine Sunstone's in Oregon or whatnot, or there's probably a place where you can go get Peridot or something, I don't know.
Speaker 3:There's a mine, where you can go and you, you, you know, take your chisel or whatever and get stuff and bring it to a cutter uh, there's really no place to go to die for oysters, uh, and get pearls, except for bahrain. In bahrain, uh they're, they're fascinating, but they actually have a whole revitalized industry of natural pearl farming. And I say natural pearls because they really they kind of farm, but they really are natural pearls and they are very great stewards of the, the environment, the water, the. You know how many oysters are pulled and you can get a permit to pull up, I think, a maximum of 50 oysters, if I, if, if I remember right, and I want to go out there and do that one of these days. That sounds cool, but there really is no other. You can't go anywhere and nobody is going and picking up an oyster and getting a pearl these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really, uh, it's just interesting.
Speaker 1:I I know I am probably comparing things um that't have a correlation, but for some reason the fact that they are it's still like identical is very, very cool and something that is fascinating, especially when there are these different values attributed to the different colors and the quality and things like that, just like there is with gemstones the different colors and the quality and things like that, just like there is with gemstones. Now I guess I kind of want to pivot that into talking about the, you know, for retailers. So right now it does feel like the focus is away from pearls and you're making some great points about why retailers should be getting into this. If a retailer might be interested in expanding their display or trying to get part of, you know, expanding their line of pearl offerings, what would be the best way that they should go about doing that? Is it a matter of finding connections or making their own pearl jewelry, or are there brands that you would highly recommend people at least investigate to see if they might be interested in carrying their designs?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I don't recommend jewelers get into making pearl jewelry because that's like the last thing you have time to do is to try to create pearl jewelry. By the way, and stringing is an art. I'll tell you that. That's what I've heard. I've heard it's a real art. I'm training two stringers and we just had our stringing night last night and one girl kind of graduated and she's so excited, but it took her a lot of time to get to the point of getting the quality where I like it to be.
Speaker 3:And, believe it or not, there's different stringing techniques, there's different quality. There's different quality materials. So, yeah, buy collections. You can buy my collection mattharrisdesignscom and we sell retail online, but I also wholesale designs with packaging and presentation and the story to everybody. And then I also have to say and I'm a member, a board member, of the Culture Pearl Association of America and we have a great, great group of wholesalers that you can come to and all of those people are the real deal and you can trust everything there is about all of these guys and we have a list online. So if you go to the CPA or Cultural Parole Association website, I think we actually just changing the URL, but Google it, you can find a list of vendors, and these people have been around for a long time. We have some that are third generation pearl vendors that are great and they're at all the trade shows JCK and Nissan, et cetera. So that'd be a great place to start is the Culture Pearl Association.
Speaker 1:Awesome and, matt, I'll make sure I have that information in the show notes. That's definitely I'd love for, uh love to check it, check it all out and make sure that, um, our retailers are looking into it as well. But, matt, maybe just to kind of put us on uh, end us on a on a some interesting notes, can you give me maybe one or two interesting facts that you have in that catalog of yours, uh, about pearls, um, to that kind of really summarize how special and unique they are as a gemstone?
Speaker 3:Well, kind of like something that just would be interesting to tell a customer that they don't know. Yeah, sure, yeah. Well, you know we opened the show with this. Pearls are the only gem that comes from a living creature, and that's pretty cool. By the way, did you know? Even pearls are a gem. A lot of people don't know that they're technically a gem. The GIA designated them as such I think it was gosh 1968 or something like that. So that's interesting in itself and they're one of the oldest things gems that has been worn as jewelry, and we talked about the history and whatnot. But if I had had a one-liner, when people come into my store, I remember I'd tell them that they're the only gem that comes from a living creature. It starts the conversation.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting. It's such a fascinating everything about them. They feel almost like they're alive. I sometimes feel like it's like they have a little bit more to them than, um, you know some of the other ones, and not that I don't have a lot of appreciation for, for other things, but the fact that they literally are like, seemingly birthed by, by nature is just such a special and kind of unique quality about them that, uh, definitely a good hook.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that and you know, as a farmer, you can do whatever you want, but you just don't know how the pearl's going to come out. Yeah, you, we do. We simply don't have the control now to romanticize them. Uh guys, don't get me wrong, I love diamonds and sapphires and all this stuff. I've got a lot of them, uh. But you know, you get a rock out of the ground and you cut it up into a. You know a way that, technically, that everybody knows now is excellent, cut this, you know, has a play of light that's perfect and cool.
Speaker 3:But a pearl farmer, right, you've got these little guys in the water for a few years and you do what you can. You try to like make sure that the water for a few years and you do what you can. You try to like make sure that the water is in, you know, good shape. Um, you try to. You have to take them out and clean them. Uh, you, you still don't know even if the bead is going to take.
Speaker 3:Um, I've opened up oysters in french polynesia and taken five, six, seven of them before I even got a pearl, and these all had a bead put in them. So you don't even know if they're going to have a pearl, and if you do, I've opened up 50 oysters without getting a perfectly round pearl, so you just don't know what's going to come out, and there's something really cool about that that you know. No matter what we do as humans, nature plays a huge part in pearls, and I just think wearing them. I think of that when I wear them, and every one is really, really unique. So when you get that single pearl, you're the only one that has it. You could say that every diamond is unique too. You know there's some that are close to each other, but there's something about pearls and that uniqueness that I love as well.
Speaker 1:Matt, I really appreciate your time. What a really cool conversation. I definitely learned your time. What a really cool conversation. I definitely learned a lot. I was going to say what?
Speaker 3:did you learn about Pearl? What sticks out in your mind about Pearls that you learned today?
Speaker 1:Give me like one or two things, I think what stands out to me is first of all that they are historically worn, I guess. For me, the image that I think of is, yeah, a perfect white strand and typically worn by a famous, rich woman, and the fact that that's not always been the case and that it's only in recent years that that has been the main figure is kind of an interesting one to me, especially worn by kings. But the other one is the fact that the range of colors is so kind of pronounced and can be, you know, I guess, is not something that can be majorly controlled. I think that's kind of exciting. Nowadays, you're right, especially with lab grown diamonds, I feel like they can pretty much pick exactly what it is that they want. But the fact that there is still some randomness and some kind of seemingly luck is just like a really endearing quality to me.
Speaker 3:You said it better than I did. That's great. I got one more thing to say. It's a teaser maybe. Sure, the girl in the pearl earring the movie Vermeer Vermeer. I'm'm gonna tell you right now that's not a pearl no way, really, yeah and so I'm doing a youtube about this.
Speaker 3:Uh, we're gonna film it sometime in the next few days and uh, so all the things that we talked about kind of will lead to you understanding what I'm talking about, uh, when you see that. But it just wouldn't make sense because that pearl and there's a lot of technical reasons why I don't think that's a pearl in terms of the painting itself and everything but culturally a pearl. If it was a pearl that size, I think it's just a shiny piece of tin or something. But a pearl that beautiful, that size, would have absolutely been found its way to whatever queen in Europe at that time. There's no way in the world that would be owned by. It wasn't really even a person that he painted anyways, but even Vermeer or anybody like it or anybody like the subject. It would be just so over the top because it would be one of the most valuable things in is to have a pearl like that based off the sheer size of it or the shot size and size and shape.
Speaker 3:And then you could say, well, I'll save it for the video. If you guys want to go, look at youtube.
Speaker 1:Yeah and matt, I'll have every uh, all your links in the show notes below. Everybody, go check them out, uh, if you want to learn more about, if you're interested in carrying more designs. He also has his own line of pearl jewelry and I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, matt, for joining me and everybody. We'll be back next week, tuesday, with another episode. Cheers, everybody, bye. Cheers, all right, everybody. That's the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening. My guest this week was Matt Harris and he's a Pearl expert. Definitely go check out his information in the show notes below. This episode was brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, michael Burpo. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cockrum. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave us feedback on punchmarkcom slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E. We'll be back next week, tuesday, with another episode. Thanks, bye, thank you.
