In the Loupe
In the Loupe
How A Family Pearl Farm Went Viral ft. Kamoka Pearls
Mike talks with Komoka’s Josh Humbert about his family pearl farm in Tahiti rebuilt its methods around eco-farming and sustainable handling of oysters. Fish now clean their oysters, helping reefs recover, resulting in the harvesting of hundreds of beautiful pearls that shine with rare color that redefine what quality feels like.
The story of Kamoka illustrates what is possible when working WITH nature, instead of against it.
Learn more about Kamoka and their Tahitian Pearl Jewelry: kamokapearls.com
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Welcome to In the Loop. What is up, everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop. This week, it's one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. 250 something episodes in, and this one is so cool. I speak with Josh Humbert from Komoka. And Komoka Pearls, they make an Pearl jewelry. And these Pearls are absolutely incredible. But I found Komoka through their Instagram. I got an Instagram targeted ad, and it was the storytelling was just so unique and so tangible feeling. And I was really impressed by their environmental approach to pearl farming. So they have banded together with a lot of the other families on their atoll, and uh now they no longer power wash their oysters, they instead um used fish to clean their uh oysters. It was a really cool process. And the fact that I was able to use Zoom to have this conversation with this man, uh, you know, hundreds, uh thousands of miles away from me to talk about his jewelry making process is just a really special thing, and it made me kind of really proud to be able to bring this to you. I really hope that you check them out. Their social media is incredible, their jewelry is even more beautiful than you can imagine. Uh, they might be getting into wholesale jewelry in the near future, and I really hope that they do because I think that they do an incredible job that feels very unique and different. But I also talk about what it's like dealing with uh you know family and and working alongside your family to have a uh a mom and pop business, what it's like, do they eat the oysters or do they try not to? It was just so cool. I even embarrassed myself by asking how pearls are made, and he was very gracious to explain it uh very in-depth. It was such a cool conversation. If you can tell, I'm so excited. I hope you enjoy. Cheers.
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SPEAKER_02:Correct me if I'm saying this wrong, Komoka Pearl. Okay. Awesome. And I found you guys on Instagram. Uh, I mean, the coolest Instagram ads and targeting, and uh, your guys' jewelry is absolutely beautiful. You have an incredible story. This is one of the interviews that I'm most excited to have done in in you know several years. Uh, could you first of all explain uh what Komoko is and and where I'm actually reaching you right now?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I'm sitting on the deck of our house in uh in Tahiti. Well, I'm not out at the farm. Uh I was there a couple days ago. Tahiti to bring the pearls here, go through all the all the hoops to um to export them uh legally. So that means sorting them and uh you know getting them through through export control and all that. Komoka is it's a small mom and pop's and grandpa and son operation uh here in Polynesia. The name comes from the the land that that we occupy. There's actually two pieces of land, two motus. A motu is like a link in a in an athol. And one of them was gifted to us by the the owner, who is basically kind of family to us. Uh, she's she's passed away since then, but she was kind of my my mother's uh mentor when we uh lived there, whatever, 50 years ago. Yeah, so uh really long time ago. And then the the second piece of land um also belonged to her, and um my father bought it some some years later. So uh that's in a nutshell what Komoko is. It's uh it's a pearl farm and uh pearl jewelry business. Um we've been uh we've been selling pearl jewelry on the internet since uh 2012, actually, or 2011, I think, is when I first opened the the uh the e-commerce store. But uh yeah, we've kind of been getting traction in recent years with uh with the help of social media and and all that.
SPEAKER_02:It's a very, very cool story. And I want to get into all the details of pearl farming and and eco-pro farming um that you guys have uh been uh speaking about so um in depth about. I guess the first thing I want to just kind of start talking about is this eco-pro farming. One of the corner kind of topics that you guys have um brought to the forefront, at least in the content I've seen, is uh you guys are very adamant about not power washing oysters. Could you maybe explain a little bit about what that does and also what your your alternative is as well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so power washing, uh it's something that that we did in the early years. You know, we we didn't know like this is the the whole industry, it's it's really new, you know, it's only really 30, 40 years old, honestly. Like, I mean, it's been going on a little bit longer than that, but not not serious production anyway. And what we discovered um through power washing ourselves and and then in seeing the effect that it was having on the lagoon of not just us doing it, but our neighbors as well, was that there were certain uh certain kinds of organisms, uh asidians, um, basically like uh kind of like like jellyfish that all kind of live together, sort of thing. And and also um also other uh anemones and a couple other uh a couple other creatures. And basically like when you when you blast them with uh pressurized water, they you know they break into all these little pieces. And uh a lot of them were basically took advantage of this. Um and they, you know, if you if you take an anemone and you break it into 10 pieces, it becomes 10 uh different uh anemones. And so what we're seeing is huge explosions of of uh of certain species in the in the lagoon that was uh having really, really bad effects. It was basically uh allowing certain species to to colonize everything, like the like all the oysters would be covered, the lines, the the buoys, like everything would be would be covered in certain like really really aggressive species. And so, you know, this was making the oysters sick, it was displacing um lots of things in in the lagoon that that were doing just fine before. So, and you know, it stopped oysters from collecting in the collector. So we, you know, we were having a hard time getting getting uh new stock for for future future work, and and it just had all these kind of downstream effects that were really negative. So we kind of uh banded together. Um, you know, we we talked with uh a number of our neighbors and we basically like got everyone to come to a consensus that this is no good and that it had to stop. And um, and so and so we did, you know, that there was no no law was passed, like no, like nothing done in terms of uh bureaucracy or or anything like that. It was just kind of a a common sense uh collective that was like, hey, that you know, we're not doing this anymore. And um, and there were people that you know that that were part of our crew that that uh that came down heavy on on other farmers that that were that were uh using the the power washers. And so so it was really kind of a beautiful example of a getting community together and and having having a positive uh effect. So what we did instead of that, we basically uh sustainable pearl farming, it's in in my eyes, it's a lot like any kind of uh permaculture. Basically, it starts with observation, right? You you kind of sit back, you you watch what's going on, and then you act. You don't just come in like sure of of what you're doing and uh and go ahead and uh up about your business. So basically, um to clean oysters, we we have to uh bring them to the farm where there's a like a temporary holding platform. And the oysters they they grow up over really deep water where there's no fish. So they, you know, like like a boat, uh a boat that that's at anchor for for a while will have its hull kind of covered in different things that grow on it, right? And you have to periodically like clean it. So the oysters is it's the same thing. Um so we we had brought these oysters in to clean, and we we put them on our temporary platform. And um, you know, we we went about our morning, cleaning oysters all morning, scraping and scraping, scraping. It's really hard work, and you get like stuff like you know, squirting in your face, and it's just it's it's uh it's just it's tough.
SPEAKER_02:It's very manual, very, very uh intensive.
SPEAKER_00:Super labor intensive. And and uh and then you know, we stopped for lunch for an hour and then we went back and I I went to go go get a string and I went, wait a minute, the the oysters are clean. Like we we knew already that the fish were were nibbling on the on the shells and the stuff and the oysters, but I just had this kind of like this epiphany of like, wait a minute, the fish are doing our work. Like, why are we doing this? Like, stop, everybody stop. Like, no more scraping, like this is ridiculous. Like we're we're creating all this work for ourselves that we don't have to do. And so we we kind of went all in with the with the fish cleaning and we we built out all these uh all these uh platforms that are underwater, um, unlike the one at the farm. At the farm, it's uh it's an above above the water platform, and you you have to you know pull the oysters out of the water and hang them down and then they get cleaned butt by the fish. But so we we built these uh kind of lattice works like uh like kind of like spider webs underwater, and uh and and we we'd hang the oysters there and the fish would come around. And and basically after doing that for over 30 years, we've seen just this huge like uh increase in in fish populations. And and uh that's been really exciting because some fish like uh like parrot fish, they they they have really positive uh effects on the on the uh laguan ecosystem. Basically what parrot fish do is they they clean the algae off of off of dead coral. And what that does is it enables the coral to grow uh to grow more. Like the like dead coral gets colonized by algae and then the and then it can't it can't grow anymore. So the parrot fish they come around and they they just they're just doing their thing and they they eat off the algae and then the coral can can flourish. So basically by by favoring the the parrot fish um through the the oyster cleaning, we're also favoring the the uh the the reef, you know, all the all the coral in the in the surrounding area.
SPEAKER_02:That's incredible. What a cool, what a cool symbiotic relationship though between the oysters, your the fish, and yourself. Uh it seems like everybody is is benefiting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and it just comes it just comes from uh just the very simple anyone can do it, uh just observation, you know, just like just watching what's going on, thinking about it, and then acting from from that. You know, I mean it's just it's a it's it's like the the first tenet of of permaculture. Um and whether that's done um in in this, you know, in soil or in the ocean, it's really it's really the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. It's very, very fascinating. And the fact that you're able to uh come to that conclusion just through observation is just fascinating to me. Um if you don't mind me asking, how many different families are on this atoll? Um it sounds like you had to come to this uh agreement amongst yourselves. Um, how many different people are on this on this space? It looks rather small.
SPEAKER_00:So um when at that period I'm talking about, there was uh around four or five hundred people living on the uh on the atoll.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00:Um so it wasn't like we had to go around and like talk to everyone and be like, hey, this is what's going on, but we just kind of like um in like kind of public spaces like like at the airport, for example, you know, before flying in or you know, uh before flying out or or uh as you're flying in, you know, uh people farmers who just kind of get together and chat, you know, and and uh Ahe has this really, really, uh, really cool culture. It's really uh progressive. Um all atolls are a little bit different. And um and uh that's because they're you know they're geographically so so isolated. But Ahe has this really, really neat kind of um uh just just has a real kind of community vibe to it and and people people share what what they're doing, and and there's there's uh pretty remarkable cohesion between farmers. Um, you know, it's it's sure everyone's competing against each other, uh more or less, but there's also a a lot of sharing that that goes on and and um and yeah, and and through that we're able to actually you know move the uh needle on it.
SPEAKER_02:That's incredibly uh encouraging to hear that a community can can can band together and and especially with the with nature at the forefront of it. Um where I live as well is uh very different uh location than where you are. Uh I'm very much uh surrounded by mountains. And uh around here, there's such a focus on uh sustainable um like forestry and hunting and things like that, because you know, back in the back in the day, they logged everything um completely to the ground. And someone came to the realization, probably like yourself, realized that, oh wait, if we cut all the trees down, there's a lot of knock-on effects that are going to have lasting generational impacts. Uh, maybe we should not do that. And uh, but also there's also a lot of uh thoughts like, oh, well, if we need trees for certain things, uh, how can we go about you know harvesting trees without having those uh eventual effects? And that's where like sustainable things are coming into play, which is uh trying to draw the conclusion or the comparisons between oyster farming and logging, very far jump. But um, I guess I also wanted to kind of discuss with you when I was reading, I've read your guys' entire website because I was fascinated. Uh, you guys talk a lot about grafting. And I wanted to, first of all, ask if you could explain a little bit about grafting, but also it seems like the it has a pretty recent history to it, in that it's only been around for, you know, a generation or two, uh seemingly. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I mean, well, I mean, in French Polynesia anyway, but I mean it started, there's some controversy whether the Japanese started it or the Australians started it. I'm not real clear on the on the nitty-gritty of all that. But um, I know in in Polynesia it first happened in the gosh, the 80s probably, something like that. The like the late 80s, I'm I'm guessing, maybe before. I don't know. It didn't really take off though until the until the uh until the the early 90s. The easiest way to understand it is to think of it as uh a skin graft, you know, like you you get in an accident and you lose like a bunch of your face or something, and then they they take skin from your butt or wherever and they stretch it and they and they put it on your face and then it fills back in. Um so we're doing the same thing with uh with oysters. We we take a uh a piece of tissue from from uh a donor oyster, um, and that tissue comes from the the mantle. And usually when I talk about this stuff, I I kind of see people's eyes glaze over and and uh I no I love this stuff.
SPEAKER_02:And believe me, the all the listeners, they're gonna be into this too, because they're all retail jewelers and they probably love this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay, good, good, good. Yeah, I always kind of imagine that I'm like the the teacher in Charlie Brown, like so the the uh tissue that that that we use, it's taken from from the the mantle, and and the mantle is the organ of the oyster that stretches out over the shell and and deposits shell and and builds the shell. So we're taking very specific cells that are shell building, and we're taking them from a donor oyster that's that's sacrificed, and we cut out the mantle and we we uh we process it into little squares, and then we insert those squares into the body of a host oyster along with a nucleus. So then if all goes well, that little piece of tissue will grow over the nucleus and deposit shell on it.
SPEAKER_02:And the nucleus is typically sand, correct?
SPEAKER_00:No, not correct. Um uh sand is um sand is almost never at the core of any pearl, like natural or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_02:Um I guess I'm confused. I thought that uh that's what was causing the the pearls to grow.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So that that's a that's a common misconception, and and I I blame John Steinbeck from it for it. Paul, cut that out, cut that out, Paul. Paul's our editor. No, no, don't don't cut anything out. It's all good because because that that's a common misconception, and and that's that's what people think. And so it's good to be able to to to to clear that up. So Paul, leave it in.
SPEAKER_02:So it's around a nucleus, and then uh I guess I was looking further into your um like the process. And and like you said, right when we got on this call, you were in the middle of sorting these pearls, and uh some of the pearls are you know perfect and beautiful. Oh wow, he's so he just panned down and is showing all these pearls. They literally look like something from a different world. They are absolutely stunning. And there's there's gotta be several hundred of them on here, or maybe, yeah, a couple hundred.
SPEAKER_00:Now I I think right there there's like I'd say probably four, uh three or four hundred, probably.
SPEAKER_02:Three or four hundred on this table, and they're all beautiful. Now, I see you have some smaller piles off to the side. Are those purely just based on numbers? Or like you're counting them. Oh, here's 10, 10, 10, or are you sorting by size, or um how are how do you distinguish them?
SPEAKER_00:So I'm I'm I'm preparing an uh uh an exportation. So um I'm I'm uh pulling out the A Bs, putting them in a pile, uh putting the C's in one pile, putting the D's in another pile, and then I'm pulling out uh pearls that were that were missorted to begin with that are that belong in the in the Baroque or semi-baroque category. Um they got mixed in with the rounds because they they look really round, but when then when you if you look at them closely, they're not actually round. Um so I'm just kind of I'm just kind of cleaning all that up. But I I like to go back to the to the uh to the uh sand thing. Basically, um oysters are are supremely uh suited to stop that from happening. Like they're really, really good at keeping sand out. And I actually have a friend, uh he's a Mexican pearl farmer in the city of Cortez, and he he actually stuffed a bunch of sand in in oysters thinking, ha ha ha, I'm gonna make a bunch of pearls. And uh none of the oysters produced produce any pearls at all. So it's not that easy. Like they're they're really good at at just getting rid of sand. I mean, they they they live amongst the sand, so that that's not how natural pearls are formed. Uh natural pearls are formed usually from a parasite that that drills through the shell, it pierces through the shell, and then the the mantle will form a like a cup and then entomb the the intruder um in its own flesh to to suffocate it, and then it and then it forms pearl around it. So your your question is was not a bad question at all. And in fact, it's it's a really good question, and and it's a very common uh uh misunderstanding. Um it's not really misunderstanding, it's just it's just bad information, and it just comes from sort of uh, yeah. I mean, I I think I really think it comes all the way back, uh it goes all the way back to John Steinbeck um in uh the Pearl where he talks about this, you know, this this giant pearl, and and it all came from uh from a grain of sand. Uh in the world.
SPEAKER_02:We read that in high school.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure we did. It's poetic, you know. It's like it's what you want to believe. It's like, oh, you know, like transforming the difficulty into something beautiful, like just like humans, like, oh, isn't that nice? Sure, it's nice, but it doesn't really happen that way. Um anyway, I I that's all I want to say about the grain of sand.
SPEAKER_02:No, I love it. Uh I've got so many questions. Let's keep keep on this. I wanted to also ask about um the color of your pearls. And you were explaining um that it's a very specific uh type of or species of oyster. And could you maybe expound upon that? And is there is there any difference? Like, for example, if you were to just find one that is not part of your pearl farm, just like you're, I don't know, go out into the ocean and you're fishing and you find an oyster uh an oyster and it happens to have a pearl, would they be indistinguishable from the ones that you or would be pulling out as well?
SPEAKER_00:So they they could be, but they they probably wouldn't be. I mean, so natural pearls, they they tend to not have uh good color. Like it'd be really, really rare to have a natural pearl that had any kind of uh decent color.
SPEAKER_02:And but there's a specific type of species that you are um targeting or harvesting from.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Yeah, we yeah, we we work with the the pinctata margarita ferro, which is the uh the the black lip uh pearl oyster. And um, and it what's fun about it, what what I love most about it is that it has this incredible range of colors that it'll produce. So if you open a hundred shells, like you're not gonna have two cells that that look identical. They're all gonna be a little bit different. Some might be like completely gold colored, like uh like a South Sea oyster, you know, super rare, but it does happen. And others might be kind of green, others kind of bluish, others kind of uh with like strong like red hues, others more kind of copper, like there's just this huge like color palette. And um, so basically, like the way the way that that we do our work, the you know how I was talking about how you need you need the mantle tissue? Well, so what we do to find our mantle tissue is we go through literally hundreds of oysters every day to find the ones that have the very, very best color, the the most intense color that those are the ones that that we pick. And if we do a good job of that, then we have pearls like this.
SPEAKER_02:You know, we we have we have all this uh he's showing a bunch more of the pearls and they're beautiful. So a lot of them are look uh almost green and and gold, but also some of them are like very jet black looking as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's there's all colors really.
SPEAKER_02:Now, are they typically a very similar-ish size, or do you ever get one that like comes out and it's just like a a mammoth pearl, you know, for a la from that from the book?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good question, actually. Um, because there's there's sort of sort of like uh an average growth rate. You know, there's like most pearls grow at at a certain rate. And uh yeah, so where where we are, um we have about a millimeter in 12 months, uh, which is um a contrast to the the Japanese, which consider uh a pearl mature when it has uh a quarter of a millimeter of of thickness. Like to them, like that's that's enough. It's good. Um but so we will have uh typically four times uh what what Japanese oysters have. But there are oysters that um there are outliers that are um that will produce uh literally like four times what a what an ordinary oyster will. And the those are the oysters that produce the the truly exceptional pearls. And um that's like one out of every, I don't know, thousands of oysters, but it's always really exciting to to see one. Like you'll like this past harvest, we had a uh we had a uh a first graft oyster uh come out at 14 millimeters. Wow and and it had a uh a nucleus of um, let's see, it had a nucleus of 7.6 millimeters. So it had it had six, so so it had three three millimeters on each side of the nucleus, which is like which, you know, after like a little bit less than 12 months, is just completely mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_02:So with your jewelry, you're probably trying to standardize the types and sizes of the pearls. Do you can you use a a pearl that big, or is that like kind of just you just have that pearl now and then you can't really use it in jewelry?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, the the uh bigger the better. The bigger the better.
SPEAKER_02:How nice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um bigger they are, the more valuable they are, and and um there there are people that that are looking for those pearls, as as your your audience knows.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sure. Now, one more question about this harvesting, because uh it's just fascinating. Um say you pull up a uh like a a strand or a rope or uh uh whatever term you're using, and there's we'll just make a uh what's like an average count of of oysters on one of those rooms? 20. What number is average for actually having a pearl inside of it? Is it all 20 or because they've been that you've added this uh this graft? Or I'm assuming that there's some amount of failure in it, correct?
SPEAKER_00:There's always failure, yeah. There's always failure. Um, and there's there's uh a certain amount of mortality that that depends on the on the skill of the of the technician. If the technician is is good, he or she should produce uh 10% or less basically of mortality. And you know, that's that's pretty close to what the natural uh mortality is amongst oysters just due to you know sickness and random things that you know an oyster flu or whatever. But yeah, there's there's uh there's all there's always um you know oysters that that are able to to reject the the nucleus, but it's definitely uh like a marker of the the talent of the of the grafter. At our farm, we we average uh about 50 percent.
SPEAKER_02:Um fascinating, yeah, which is really cool, which is pretty good.
SPEAKER_00:It depends who's who's harvesting. I if I'm doing the work, I've I've been doing this for a long time, obviously. Um it might be a little higher. Um, and if it's you know uh apprentices that we have, like younger guys that are that are doing the job that maybe aren't as experienced, it might be a little lower. But yeah, uh 50% is is a pretty uh is a pretty good really interesting.
SPEAKER_02:And I I know I said one last one, but here's the actual last one before we get into talking about jewelry. Do you I know a lot of your uh content also revolves around environmentalism and uh living off the land and how you're able to collect rainwater for for your freshwater and things like that? And as much as I'd like to dive into all of that, uh, I want to be cognizant of your time. I guess the one thing I wanted to ask is uh, do you guys eat oysters? Like I know they're delicacy in much of the world, but it's very close to home for you. Are you still eating them? Or is that like, nah, we can't do that?
SPEAKER_00:Um no, we can definitely do that. And and we absolutely do that. Um the the actual viscera of the oyster, it's not amazing. We have eaten it before. We we had a friend come over one day and he's like, Oh, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta try try it in this way, and and he prepared it for us. And it was actually very good, um, but it's not something that we're used to eating. But the uh the the scallop of the oyster, you know, the the muscle that that holds the the uh shell closed, that's actually really good. Um kind of like a a cut rate scallop, like it's not as good as a as a proper scallop, it's tougher, but it's it's really good raw, like um carpaccio or um ceviche, but you don't you don't want to overcook it or um you know you you know you can fry it as well, but it it gets it gets tough uh really quickly.
SPEAKER_02:Um but maybe that's a good thing that it's not super delicious because then you're not tempted to eat them. And instead it's like, you know what, we'll just we'll leave it to you because it seems like you guys are uh spear fishing quite often and and getting out there, and uh it seems and and you guys have also developed um a whole process of like some pseudo-terra farming. I guess it's more like um making it so that you guys are able to farm on the atoll.
SPEAKER_00:Um so we didn't we didn't invent that at all. That that's that's uh 100% um Polynesian technology. Technology is maybe a grandiose word, but it it's it's uh it's what the the the people of of the the Tomotus used to do back in the day before they had cargo ships to develop their to to uh deliver their their veggies, is they would um they would dig out trenches and um basically on a coral atoll you you have a floating lens of fresh water that that goes up and down um with with the tide every day. So basically it comes up and down through the the coral. So what it does at high tide is if if you dig a trench, what it does at high tide is it waters the the bottom of the trench, basically. So like if you don't do that, if you're just if you're just digging in the ground and and you plant stuff, it's so dry that um and and water water just kind of goes out. The the ground is so porous that uh you have to just be watering all the time and and nobody has access to that that much water in the format juice because it's it's dry and like the storage you would need is crazy. So so with this system of trenches, it it allows us to actually um develop soil and um and uh and to grow, you know, to grow all sorts of things. Like we've we've got bananas and uh pineapples and and limes and uh and figs and you know all this all this food that's uh that's coming from from our trenches. But yeah, no, it's definitely not our own idea. It's it's uh it's Polynesian 100%.
SPEAKER_02:So cool. Uh so Josh, I wanted to ask about uh your beautiful jewelry. So you guys are using the jewelry or the the pearls that you guys are harvesting, and we've talked a lot about the the harvesting process and what that looks like. So I wanted to talk about uh first of all, your designs are very are very different seeming than what a lot of I feel like 99% of Pearl related designs are Pearl Strands. And but a lot of your your pieces are uh much more innovative with like you know drops and things like that we have a lot of retailers that are listening that I'm sure are very interested. I know that you have a jewelry designer on staff. What is that like kind of staying inspired and and making the jewelry um that you're harp from the pearls you're harvesting um well I mean it's a better question for our jewelry designer um my wife oh no way very cool yeah she's she does does quite a bit um for us um she handles all the all the back end stuff all the all the stuff that isn't isn't as glamorous but that is crucial to to keeping the the business running and and yes she's um she's super busy with the the the designs and and uh uh innovating on on that front she she's actually she's uh a uh uh a guidebook author she's she's written uh well over a hundred titles um for countries uh uh across the world but uh but yeah but but these days our pearls are kind of taking up uh the bigger share of of uh of of our lives but um yeah she just um you know she takes kind of what inspires her I mean she's like I said she's you know she's been to she's been all over the world she's traveled um since um yeah she's been traveling um all over the world for over 30 years now so that surely inspires her yeah I mean uh couldn't do it without her sounds amazing it's really cool because it seems like your uh your jewelry is stays very true with the pearl as kind of the the center of focus but I know that you also have to be uh sourcing some of your pieces use diamonds some of your pieces are using you know gold I'm assuming you're not uh harvesting and and mining your own gold and diamonds um at the atoll as well uh do you guys have to source that from uh from like the US or do you have a an agreement with any of the the retailers that you work with if if you don't mind me asking about your business?
SPEAKER_00:So basically we we are farmers, right? And like that's that's what we do. And it's really hard for us to step out of that and to to try to be something that that we're not and to um you know like we're obviously not going to go mining gold or whatnot. It is important to us that that we feel good about the stuff that that we use. So we we do everything we can to work with um gold that's that that has uh origins that are that are ethical and our the the diamonds that we use we just use um uh I know they're pretty controversial but we use lab uh created diamonds which we we love we think they're they're amazing same um love that but uh but yeah but I I know that um that like the yeah I'm sure that the the diamond miners of the world are are probably not not huge fans but um yeah I mean we just kind of uh we uh we we do the best that we can but like I said you know we we are farmers and and it's important for us at the end of the day to not lose sight of that and to just kind of stay in our in our lane.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and I'm looking at at your beautiful jewelry here and is there like um like we were saying pearls come out and they're all sorts of colors I'm sure that there's a grading process for your pearls like you were saying there's A, B, C, D. When it comes to creating jewelry, I know that jewelers love you know standardized goods. They don't want to have you know a huge variety because I know some of them are going to be more desirable than others.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have like okay only these ones can be used for our our stud earrings and only these ones can be used in the in the strands um is that like part of the the process because I'm sure you're probably stuck with some um some pearls that that you can't can't use I guess right yeah yeah I mean it it's it's a good question um there's so much variety in the in the kinds of jewelry that that we make we're basically able to kind of fit everything in here or there and up till now we we've hardly done any any wholesale um we've actually been sort of uh sort of been scrambling to even get all of our our retail jewelry out and you know we we've been hit with more more demand than than uh than than we're we're used to.
SPEAKER_02:Oh that's awesome that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah but we we've been um you know we we've kind of we've seen it coming for a while now and so we've been um working hard on on the farming end and we've we've increased our production and and we're actually um expecting to be able to supply uh wholesale demand uh come uh 2026.
SPEAKER_02:Wow uh so yeah so we're kind of excited about that to sort of branch out from just doing retail into doing more more wholesale yeah because I was seeing that you have a very small collection of of retailers that are um you know carrying your jewelry with them and we have a all the listeners that are listening to this podcast are are typically retailers or jewelry vendors and uh so they're very involved in the jewelry industry. I guess I was my part of me was like should we open like hey do you guys accept applications to have new new retailers or it sounds like you already have a a pretty high demand for your pearls and I know how stressful that could be if you were to you know far outstrip your um actual production means especially as a farmer is that something that you you said wholesale is that something that you hope to get into specifically jewelry stores or is it more for vendors to be able to use and then create their own jewelry with?
SPEAKER_00:That's a great question Michael and I I actually don't even have a have a good answer to that.
SPEAKER_02:I mean I at this point I think that um yeah just kind of starting with what's easy um just doing uh just uh uh loose pearls probably yeah just because I wonder what the feeling must be to be a to be a farmer and having this incredible natural resource that you guys are pulling from the from the ocean and are obviously very tied to like you were saying you you know everything about this passing it to a jeweler to to use I'm sure that's a a very complicated feeling you know because at the on the one hand you probably are like hey you need to honor these pearls because we we saw every step of the way from uh from nucleus like you were saying and grafting all the way to exporting and and passing it over. Is that something that would be you know you'd have to you know make sure that they are upholding like make sure that they understand how how important these these pearls are?
SPEAKER_00:It's not really it's not and because I think the reason for it is that the people that come to us they they kind of like they you know we sort of attract who people that they're like us you know like if people resonate with what we're doing then then they they they already get it. Yeah they're they already get it they're already kind of uh on their way to honoring the product and to doing something beautiful with it so it's uh pretty uncommon for us to to be like oh god why'd you do that with it you know like it just doesn't really it doesn't really go that way uh luckily maybe someday but but uh no we've we've been really really lucky to work with people that really get the you know get what what we're doing and and honor it.
SPEAKER_02:And it's it's been really cool. What drew me to uh Komoko was the incredible you guys' Instagram presence is is excellent. And uh I get I always that uh my Instagram algorithm thinks I'm like the most indecisive bachelor of all time because I'm always looking at at engagement rings and jewelry and stuff like that partially for my job but also partially because I just I really enjoy jewelry. And I guess I wanted to say like it seems like uh you know from a pretty remote place you guys can't really rely on on natural advertising you might say like no one is going to just stumble across the fact that you guys have incredible jewelry you guys kind of have to reach out and advertise it. Was that something that was like a real cognizant decision to go out and advertise and and um have a social presence?
SPEAKER_00:No I mean it just kind of it just kind of came naturally like wow um we just kind of um it it just kind of seemed like the natural thing to do you know like to basically we wanted to tell the story of of what we're doing. Like if we're able to tell our story we're able to sell products it sounds kind of a kind of like a I don't know very commercial uh way to think about it but it's true like if if if we're if we can explain what it is we're doing and how we're doing it then people are are like okay cool like I want to buy it and absolutely so the the best way to do that today for for free is with social media. Like there's there's no other way to get in front of eyeballs you know like like you can with with social social media. And so by by just making content that explains what what we're doing we're able to to to tell our story and to and to reach you know an incredible amount of people I mean the numbers are are absolutely you guys have over a million followers on your on your Instagram right now.
SPEAKER_02:It's absolutely insane. So that that's that's Instagram on on uh youtube we're at 1.6 million um on on TikTok we're at 1.8 million Facebook we're coming up on I don't know 500 000 or so yeah like the the total number of views the last time we looked it was well over uh four billion uh views like if you if you go uh across all the platforms it's absolutely yeah it's it's hard to it's hard to uh wrap your your your head around but but the takeaway for me is that is that what we're doing is interesting to people you know people are are resonating with it and so that's been super gratifying and and um feels good to know that that uh that we're onto something it it definitely seems like it and I guess just to kind of sort of feel like it wraps up a lot of people that work at Komoka maybe all of them are family and maybe that's just the nature of the beast with such a small island is that you don't gotta kind of throw out an indeed search you know you're kind of you're going to reach to people that you can are there any do you have ambitions to scale your operation because you mentioned that you are hoping to you know ramp up production when it comes to um farming the actual uh pearls is that something that you crave like make even more um I I don't I don't even know what that looks like.
SPEAKER_00:So that that's that's a really good question. Um and we're actually really excited about about that. For us like for a long time we thought oh yeah we you know we have sorry about the rooster sorry you know for for for the longest time we're like okay we're you know we're we're selling more and more pearls like it's it's starting to get crazy like we gotta we gotta ramp things up we got to produce more pearls and then it was actually um my son Tevi um who handles all the social media who's actually kind of a business uh visionary uh in my opinion he's very good with with uh strategy and and uh and he's just a very very sharp kid he he was like wait a minute we don't necessarily want to make more pearls like it's not us at Komoto making more pearls is uh it's not scalable you know we're a very small team we we have uh we have a certain uh allotment that we can actually you know we're we're a long ways from filling up our our legal allotment we can we can produce 75 000 pearls a a year and we're like nowhere even close to that um not even yeah yearly we do maybe 10 15 thousand pearls like it's not like we're we're you know we're a long ways from what what we're legally able to do but it even if we were able to do it it would require you know doubling tripling our our personnel um more boats more motors more gasoline more food more just more more headaches so it's really hard to scale like uh farming wise and what my son was saying he was like yeah you know we should we should be buying pearls from farmers that are that are like us and so what we've been talking about is um is partnering with with other farms and getting them to basically sign on and work the way that we work clean the oysters with with the fish um you know implement these these kind of like basic tenants of our pearl farming um and then once they've done that then buy their their pearls from them and so what that does is that that enables us to sort of spread our our gospel you know that that enables us to to go well well beyond uh the reaches of our own farm and and uh and have a much greater impact on on uh our atoll and and maybe maybe even further you know maybe branch out to other atolls other other islands um which would be very exciting because that would mean that you know not only we'd be getting pearls but we'd be also um having a a really big uh impact on um on the the ecology of of all those places like like just our farm like it's just teeming with fish and there's just a ton of life there's sharks everywhere and there's there's all this uh uh biodiversity and and biomass that's that's uh that's that's come of it and so if we could uh scale that like that's that's super exciting like that's like to me that's so cool it gives me a goosebumps yeah it's really exciting your son is tell him tell him that's a pretty amazing idea and and we need more people like like you all and and like him that sounds very cool uh I can only hope that you guys keep doing that and that uh you know maybe when you guys scale up enough some of our retailers will be able to uh have your beautiful pearls at their stores because they are absolutely splendid.
SPEAKER_02:Josh just to kind of maybe tell people to leave them with something else uh where can people find out more and and and learn more about uh Komoca?
SPEAKER_00:Um just on on social media you know um just just follow us on whatever platform that that you're on we we communicate what what we uh what we have going on there um and people can also uh they can drop us an email uh comoca pearl at gmail.com and if they're interested in wholesale they can just put wholesale in the header and then uh when we're ready to uh launch wholesale operations then it we'll we'll basically get back to all those people that have ever that have ever started the roosters here next level Josh that might be the best way to end it that sounds uh perfect um everybody I'll have all that information in the show notes below um Josh I can't thank you enough this is one of the coolest uh interviews I've had um the fact that uh I found you off an Instagram ad and I literally got on there I was it was so early in the morning and I was scrolling through and I literally found a contact form on your guys' website and the fact you even got back to me is crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Uh you are thousands and thousands of miles away from me and the way that we're able to communicate through through technology and hear about your story is just really inspiring to me and something that I am I feel very uh lucky to be able to do. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you Michael I I really appreciate talking to you and um yeah thanks for this opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Thanks everybody we'll be back next week Tuesday with another episode. Cheers. Bye all right everybody that's the show thanks so much for listening. Really quickly I'll say so sorry about the skip of an episode last week uh I had a couple of interviews to move around and I wasn't able to get one out. So I apologize. This episode is brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me Michael Burpo. My guest this week was Josh Humber from Komoko. Thank you so much Josh for zooming in from thousands of miles away it was really cool. Go check them out. They have all their links in the show notes below leave us feedback on punchmark.com slash loop and leave us a five star rating on Spotify and Apple Podcasts is the best way to help us grow. Thanks we'll be back next week Tuesday with another episode. Cheers. Bye
