In the Loupe
In the Loupe
Gold, Growth, And Getting Better ft. Ostbye
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We talk with Ostbye president Craig MacBean about leading through volatility, integrating a business acquisition without losing its soul, and why staying focused on independent jewelers' wins keeps a vendor business grounded.
Gold climbs, tariffs become unpredictable... yet smart operations, better data, and classic designs keep momentum strong.
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Welcome back everybody to In the Loop. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop. This week I'm joined once again by Ospie president Craig McMean. And last time I talked with Craig was at the client workshop in May last year when we had a vendor roundtable. And this time I wanted to talk all about what Q4 looked like for him and how different world changes are impacting his business and how he's adapted to them. And Craig is very transparent about his own business strategy and how he chooses to improve as a business leader. And he also talks about what it's like folding in another company when they acquired Victor Corporation about two years ago. It's one of my favorite conversations every season. Craig is a real leader for the industry, and I think you'll enjoy hearing about it whether you carry their products or not. Thanks and enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_00:This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the jewelry industry's favorite website platform and digital growth agency. Our mission reaches way beyond technology. With decades of experience and long-lasting industry relationships, Punchmark enables jewelry businesses to flourish in any marketplace. We consider our clients our friends, as many of them have been friends way before becoming clients. Punchmark's own success comes from the fact that we have a much deeper need and obligation to help our friends succeed. Whether you're looking for better e-commerce performance, business growth, or campaigns that drive traffic and sales, Punchmark's website and marketing services were made just for you. It's never too late to transform your business and stitch together your digital and physical world in a way that achieves tremendous growth and results. Schedule a guided demo today at punchmark.com slash go. And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I'm doing excellent. This is, you know, my the highlight of my year is gonna get together with you and we talk industry stuff. So um I've been in a good mood all day and I'm excited to uh get going with you.
SPEAKER_02:That is the highest of compliments. I hope my bosses hear that one. So thank you very much, Craig. Always really cool to get a chance to check in with you. This is now, I think, our third or fourth uh check-in. We had you at the workshop and we did a vendor round table, which is really exciting with Bravani. And then now, uh kind of cycling back through, uh, we've never done one in kind of like the January, February range. And I know that that can be different for uh for vendors. I'm sure you're getting excited about the upcoming slate of shows. Can you give me an idea of what the past couple of months were like for uh for OSPI?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, um we were busy. It was uh 2025 was a very, very busy year for us. Um with our acquisition of Victor and just with our growth within the OSPI division, you know, 2025 was by far our largest revenue year. So the last fourth, the fourth quarter was um just incredibly busy for us. Our team was awesome. And uh yeah, you know, especially with a lot of things going on with tariffs and you know, our ability to manufacture internally and kind of circumvent some of those um tariffs and additional costs for our customers. The amount of product that we were producing internally was um you know incredible. Our team was awesome. And um, that whole fourth quarter just uh flew by. It was crazy, but fun and just really rewarding to see what just a strong group of people working together can do. It's um it's fun. I'm very fortunate.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, for you, Ospie is kind of uh in very kind of rare company right now. It feels like you guys are you know one of the biggest players in the industry for especially for what you guys do. Um, is the goal just to, you know, number go up kind of thing? Just keep growing, keep getting bigger, or like do you have specific goals in mind? Uh, how do you kind of know where to push if you're sort of in a space where no one's kind of gone before?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great question. I think anyone that knows me will tell you my foot is always on, it's always on the gas. Cool. Um and I'm I'm just a firm believer that you can't, you can't stay flat. So you're either going up or you're going down. Yeah. And um, we don't want to go down. I'll say my priorities though have changed a little bit. You know, when I first started, I was all about the dollar, right? Like how do we make more money? How do we, you know, how do we sell more? Blah, blah, blah. You know, as I've gotten older and you know, I'm in my mid to later 50s now, you know, my focus has been more how do we more help our customers and how do we more help our employees? And it's funny, the more that we focus on trying to provide a better experience for our customers and our employees, the more that you know, we're seeing the results there and and and the numbers there. So we we definitely um we definitely have our foot on the gas of just trying to be to get better every day. Everything we do, how do we get better? How do we make it simpler? How do we give our customer a better experience? Um, we know there's so many good companies out there, and um so how do we make sure that they want to call us again? And we know our customers fight for every sale, and we want to fight for every sale with them and just just make it as easy as possible and give them the best experience possible.
SPEAKER_02:That's exciting to hear because uh there is something to be said about yeah, pushing for growth. And sometimes I do feel like very commonly at least, when you get past like the level of comfort, the the push for growth can sometimes come at the cost of you know, maybe experience, maybe at uh just comfort. And there is something to be said about stability, and I think that Pushmark had um has you know flirted with this concept before where you know growth sometimes has to come fast. And sometimes, you know, things are not always as in control, uh, you know, they're not as under your hand because it feels like you're in you're operating, you know, in a new area. But then there is something to be said about like not exactly taking your foot off the gas, but just feeling like you're crossing, you know, your t's doting your i's and making sure that everybody is happy. Is that something that comes from experience where you know, all right, we're we're not just growing, we're also kind of building these inroads. Is that part of the leadership mindset?
SPEAKER_01:I could write a book on what not to do. Um, no one will read my book on what to do, but my you know, my book on what not to do would probably be pretty well received and you know laughed upon by probably a lot of people out there, and especially other business leaders, because I certainly have made a lot of um mistakes in my day. But you know, the thing that that we've tried to get better at, and I've you know, I'm trying to get not just as a company trying to get better, but I personally am trying to get better every day. How do I be a better person, better leader, all those things? But the more we focus on what we're good at, you know, how do we keep getting better at what we're good at, you know, we know our niche. Our niche is mom and pop independent jewelers. Um, that value product with broad-based consumer appeal. That is our focus. And when we continue to focus on that, we stay within our lane and keep focusing on how do we be the best we can be to spoke to support those independent jewelers. That's when we're at our best. The times where I've chased a squirrel and gone and gotten outside of our lane. Um, it's been usually um pretty costly and pretty painful for the great people I get to work with every day. So thankfully, we've got a great leadership team. We've got a really good focus. You know, we we we practice thing called here called EOS Entrepreneurs Operating System. It's it's allowed us to really have a strong vision with traction and and it's allowed us as a company to really have everyone on the same page, rolling in the same direction, just focusing on what are the priorities that we need to focus on.
SPEAKER_02:What's really interesting is we hadn't spoken since uh the client workshop, which was, I believe, in last May. And uh, but what's fascinating is I just listened back to our conversation, which we had done um quite a while ago, I think back in right around a year and a half ago, for the plum club episode that I guess hosted for you. It's out now. So if people are listening to this and they want to hear more, the topic was about succession planning. And the title was Passing the Torch Without Blowing Up the Family. Uh, it was with yourself and some of your uh your retailers.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we had Samantha from Winx, um, who took the store over from her uh grandfather, and we had Montica from Confers, who took the store over from her parents, and two of the sharpest business owners you'll ever get to listen to. So I would encourage anyone to connect, you know, you won't get much of Michael RI on that podcast, but you'll get a lot from Monteca and Samantha if you go on and listen to that. They are very two very sharp operators. So that was it was great. We needed to be. And so just the ability to get together and share with um non-um competing stores, you know, what's going on and learn from them and learn from each other companies. It's a little bit like people in a buying group, right? If someone's an RGO or IGO, just one of the benefits is getting together and kind of learning from each other. That's what we get to do in a peer group. And um, you know, one of the first things I learned when my father retired is it's lonely at the top. And um to be able to get together with you know, people like me like-minded, and learn from them and share and talk about different challenges we're facing. And that's actually when I was first introduced to EOS, because there were companies in there that were definitely running more smoothly than I was running. I had a higher pain threshold at the time. And uh, I was able to learn from them and you know, we're a better company today because of them.
SPEAKER_02:Super interesting. And, you know, takes a lot of um, I guess, humility to be able to ask people, especially in, you know, to tackle your own issues or your own the problems that are facing you. Because I know a lot of people, one of the things that stands in their way is their inability to ask for help, uh, especially just coming as a uh young dude and someone that's always kind of had things impressed upon me, especially with sports, that oh, you just gotta deal with it, you gotta kind of take it on the chin and learn through failure. It's interesting you say pain threshold. I I I do kind of sympathize with that. Where uh especially with coming and we're working on grind so much, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Only grind so much, especially when you get to be my age. So you really do have to figure out how to get smarter.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, candles only burn for so long and so hot before they uh they stuff themselves out. So I definitely understand that. So just switching gears, I we had talked about, we did an entire episode right when you bought uh when you acquired uh Victor Corporation. I guess I wanted to ask, like, what's the state of the union on that? Uh union meaning you guys kind of were folding together at that point. Um, you know, to give it a marriage term, like, are you guys like have integrated joint bank accounts at this point, or are you guys still operating independently?
SPEAKER_01:I'm not gonna say it's perfectly seamless right now, but we've come a long way with it. It's definitely been integrated more into our system. We've, you know, the the strength of Victor was its line and it's and its people. Um, and so you know, that was well, we were and it's customer base. I mean, that's why we were most excited to bring it in, you know, where they hadn't invested like we invested in technology. As you know, I've got a great passion for technology because that's what I was in before my father caught me at a weak moment and talked me into the business. But it uh so we've just over the last year been really trying to get them kind of brought up to speed from a technologies, you know, standpoint on where things are at. We've come a long ways, we've got a little bit still to do, especially on their website and kind of things like that. But I would expect everything to be fully integrated by mid-year this year. So and again, that's been a great you know, opportunity for us. You know, they brought a thing, we look we've learned a lot from them, they brought a lot of good customers to us, a good product line, and just really enhanced you know, everything that we offer at Ospie. So um, and and I just got to work with some great people, you know. Tom Schlottman's been a top rep of theirs for many years, super, super great guy, and John Euklas, who we who we bought it from, um just as good a guy as as you'll ever meet. So and then you know, Bridget Maureen and these others that came with them. They're just just a real special group of people.
SPEAKER_02:It's so exciting to hear. I I've never been a part of a business that has acquired or been acquired. Um, you know, Punch Park is still um fully owned uh by the the co-founders. And one thing I've I've wondered about is is it as simple as like you have a client that had Victor Corporation and just being like, hey, you know, now it's owned by Ospie. Do you want to have some OSPI product in your store? Just try it out. Is that the because I assume you had mentioned that one of the biggest parts about why you were looking to acquire uh Victor Corporation initially was because it was two separate um kind of worlds, there wasn't as much overlap. Is that how you get your, you know, you want to capitalize on this existing client base that already came built in? Are you offering them, hey, like try this out kind of thing? Or is it, hey, you can keep operating the exact same way as you ever have the only thing that's different is just uh that it's a different person behind the behind the wheel.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, it's a little bit of both, to be honest. You know, they chose, you know, the the customers of of Victor chose to do business with with Victor because they loved the company and loved the people. And we wanted to make sure that when we brought that company in, that none of that changed. So that was a huge, huge focus of ours. Um, there was only about a 20% overlap in customer base, so that was exciting for both sides. So there's there's definitely been some integration now where we're seeing more stores take on both product lines because they both have their own niche and and and strengths, but at the same time, we have we still have those customers that they want to stick just an OSP customer or they want to stick just a Victor customer, and we fully support that as well. I mean, again, these stores have so many choices and and we have there's so many good companies out there that are willing to supply them. So, you know, we try not to say no to anything and we're gonna support them any any way we can.
SPEAKER_02:You know what I always think about is whenever I think that our clients should only be thinking about us, I always just think about the JCK floor and how we are only on literally half of both floors. There's two floors, they're both bigger than the high school I went to or the college campus I went to, seemingly. And we are just a small booth in the bottom. And I can understand why we only occupy a percentage of their time. And when you start looking at it like that, it's like, wow, they really do have a lot of people vying for their attention in their ear. So it starts to kind of make it.
SPEAKER_01:And that makes us better. I mean, we're better company because of everyone kind of pushing for that same business, you know, and that's um that's good. You know, just like you know, our our customers, you know, they're their consumers have a lot of choices. So when when someone walks in that door and and that retailer trusts us to get that done, we got to get it done to make sure that they get that consumer coming back to them over and over and over.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. But Craig, stay with us. We're going to jump in the trends in a second. But everybody, one quick break, and we'll be back in one minute. Thanks. Hey, as we start a new season of In the Loop, I just want to say thank you so much for continuing to support our podcast. If you haven't already, make sure you're subscribed on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast to ensure you're getting the newest episodes every Tuesday right in the inbox. It's the best way for us to grow is to have a great subscribe with surveys. If you want to give us the extra push, make sure you leave us five-star rating on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It helps us appear higher in the rankings and more people will find our podcast. If you want to leave us feedback, go to punchmark.com slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E, and leave us feedback at the bottom of the page with the survey form and let us know what guests you want on, what series you enjoy the most, and how we can make the best podcast for the jewelry industry. Thanks so much for your continued support. We have another great season ahead of us, and now back to the show. All right, everybody, still speaking with Craig McBean, president of OSPI. Uh Craig, I want to talk about trends. And I just did an episode at the end of this past year that was all about e-commerce trends. And what I've had made very apparent to me is that that only tells some of the story. Uh, we saw on the e-commerce side and you know, from the punch mark platform side, uh, that the average order value was uh way up this past year. I attribute a lot of that to the price of gold and just precious metals going up. Uh, but we saw about the same number of transactions um as the past pretty much two years. The only difference was average order value was so up that it became a record year. Uh, what were you seeing, just on your end, for um any trends in general when it came to selling jewelry?
SPEAKER_01:You know, it was the same for us. You know, uh our quantities were similar, but our numbers were up. Yeah, and it's always great to have records. I mean, we're all it's always fun to have records and celebrate records. It did feel a little more this year that there was an asterisk on the record, kind of like when some of those home run yeah um it's like I didn't really try anything different, but it just did well. Yeah, when those some of those steroid home run uh recorders, you know, they put elastics after it. But yeah, we were a little bit on steroids this past year with gold being up. Um, you know, obviously double, so that's gonna increase revenue. But I do like what we're seeing in our industry. I do like that we're getting back to the more of the um classics, you know, seeing yellow gold be stronger, bezel stronger, you know, the looks that I think like maybe maybe just because kind of when I came into the industry, but when I think of fine jewelry, I I feel like we're getting back to that, especially those things that the the independent jeweler are are are really strong in. So I really like where our industry's heading right now, and and and I feel good about it. And I think even with the price of gold, you know, they it sure puts our industry in the you know in the news a lot. And they say all the time, right? It doesn't matter what publicity you're getting, as long as you're getting some publicity. We're getting a lot of free publicity out there with all this talk about metal markets and and whatnot. And you know, the thing that I've learned about independent jewelers is they are resilient. And I think I think we're so used to noise now that we're we've gotten so much better at just blocking out the noise as an industry and just focusing on those things that we have to do to be successful and get better.
SPEAKER_02:I always wonder though, about when it comes to gold, uh, especially, and and I have a hard time. Sometimes I just talk only about gold because it's just the easiest thing for me to latch onto. But it is true for pretty much all precious metals are just way up and yeah, but yep. I always wonder, so with gold, a lot of times like the the bat the value proposition is just that hey, this material is going to hopefully stand the test of time, but they never really seem to talk about the design. Of the material. So I think that what a lot of times differentiates, for example, Ospie versus someone else, would be the design. You're both making your jewelry with the same gold, hypothetically. How are you able to differentiate yourself when the value proposition isn't necessarily that is working 100% in your favor? It's more of like a neutral thing as opposed to like, yeah, we've got we've got gold, we sell it for the price of gold, but we also have these designs as well. Do you have to like make sure you stand out or just be conservative? How do you work on that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we've always focused on product with broad-based consumer appeal. You know, we've always think that, you know, museum pieces are great, but when someone goes into a store, they might comment on the museum piece, but they're going to go to that piece, you know, that that is going to stand the test of time. And that's what we've really always focused on. We've always focused on product that's going to appeal to the masses, that's going to sell, you know, with the Ospie guarantee. If you don't sell it, we will exchange it. We are really um motivated to come up with product um that is not going to sit in um in their showcase. Um and it's gonna um be worn, um, and not just worn, but worn well. And and not only is the style gonna stand the test of time, but so is the quality of the piece. Um both of those are you know, our jewelers take a lot of pride in the quality that we put up with, and they'll they'll never compromise.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I'm uh I'm looking into the the the gold market, and the things that are affecting the price of gold are just so it boggles my mind. I I went to school for art, I didn't go to school for world economics. So some of the things miss on me, but you've been in the biz for a substantial amount of time. The world seems so um shaky sometimes. And I am increasingly, I feel like I pay attention to the news in increasingly a large amount of time. Have you experienced this kind of uncertainty in the past? And how did it affect like your business you know habits? Do you try to stay a little bit leaner and not go as much into stockpiling um in maybe in uh years where things are a little bit more stable? Or is it just like, hey, gold is just doing really well, we need to uh capitalize on it right now?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I people tease, I always say, you know, that I'm not that smart a guy. And and so I'm never trying to hedge anything because if I ever try and hedge anything, it never really works in my in our favor. You know, I had a kind of a business coach teach me some one time that when um a pilot's taught turbulence, you know, or a pilot's taught when they hit turbulence that they're they just fly the plane, don't overcompensate. And that really kind of is my philosophy. So when you see some maybe some uncertain things going on, you see, you know, gold's going up like it is at a and and none of us have ever seen gold go up at the rate that it has the last you know year. We really just fly the plane. We don't overcompensate, we just keep focusing on doing what we do best. You know, have we been a little more aggressive in melting some of our aged inventory and being able to melt it at a pretty high rate was certainly helpful and nice. But otherwise, you know, our our customers need product, they need good product, they count on us. Um, you know, the other thing I would say, because you talked a little bit about trying to make sense of it. I don't think you can make sense of it. You used to be able to kind of have a feel for why gold was going up or going down or whatnot, but everything's kind of different today. So I just kind of turn off all that noise and just focus on fly the plane. Fly the plane, be the best company we can be, you know. Um keep it simple.
SPEAKER_02:I know that there was some um reluctance by a lot of vendors when it came to uh labs also, uh, especially this past year. Um, there was a quite a fall off when it came to the average price um in 2020. Uh four, just about 25 kind of starting, seems like it's uh stabilizing. Is that something that you kind of, you know, maybe try to avoid or get back into now that things seem like they've kind of stabilized and plateaued? Um I know that a lot of people they were making a lot of money when lab grounds were were really juicy, but um, is that something that you're paying attention to as well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, so we have a lab grown diamond collection, both on the OSP side and the Victor side. And our goal has always been a one-stop shop for independent jewelers. Um and, you know, uh, I also was in the medical industry before here, and that was one of the things that we really pushed as a I worked for a Fortune 500 medical device company, and we we talked about the breadth of line and being able to standardize. And I don't think that's talked enough about in this industry, but the ability to standardize on less suppliers, issue less POs, you know, less shipping charges, less custom people. You know, there's a there's a there's a major savings there when you can standardize um your vendors. And so we've tried to be diverse and so that companies can standardize to OSP to meet all their needs. And so there's definitely, you know, lab, like anything, is a is a category within our our business. And we certainly aren't um promoting one or the other. It's not our job to do that. Our job is just to put the best product out there and let there's a lot of different ways for stores to be successful. So we we want to support them however they're doing that. And if lab is that, you know, an area that they're focused in, we're all in. And if if lab is something that they're you know not focused on, or uh and and I've heard it's funny because I I've heard both trends, you know, consistently. I've heard many of our customers say that with the the price of lab dropping, that they've really refocused on selling naturals and really to refocus their training on their staff and um kind of their presentation of um how they're presenting a natural diamond. And then I've also heard stores that um you know they've gone all in on lab, some of it to maybe hop offset the price of of gold and whatnot. Talk about you know, the the young bride out there, bride and groom that want that larger stone and but don't have the the budget for it, that it's definitely um, you know, lab is definitely a way to help with that. So uh at Ospie and Victor, we we're just here to support you either way. And the good news is if it doesn't work, whatever side you're doing, and we need to get you in a different direction, we have the ability to do that with our breath of lines. So that's something that we're we're very proud of.
SPEAKER_02:When you look at your your business just across and you have the that Ospie guarantee, that is first of all, kudos to you. I can only imagine that is uh that can be difficult. You got to put a lot of confidence in your, not just your your company, but in your especially in your designers, it sounds like. Have you ever look at like the the pluses and the minuses?
SPEAKER_01:One is I also have a lot of confidence in our retailers. Very fortunate that we, you know, our first customer from 1920, Wimmers in Fargo, North Dakota, still customer of ours today. We're just very fortunate. We really focus on the relationship that we have with our customers. And we just have we have the best of the best. And so, you know, it but but the other aspect to it is um it's not just about product, it's because there's only so many ways to make a ring and only so many ways to make a pen. And it really is the tools that you can bring to a customer to help them turn product, and we understand that I don't have a single customer out there right now that's sitting there looking at their showcase, worried that they don't have enough product and hoping that a sales rep's come walking in today. Uh, it that's you know, that it isn't. It's yes, they're all sitting there with too much product and hoping more customers walk in the door. So it's our job, um, one to make sure not that they have not they have too much product, make sure they have the right product. That's the key. You got to have the right product, and that's why I think we want to have flexibility with, you know, and our ability to have that flexibility, the breath of line, to get them in and out. But then it's all about what tools can we develop to help them bring more customers in. Um, how can we be a better partner, a better supporter so that when somebody walks in, you know, to get somebody walking in that door, that's what they want. They don't, they're not looking for more jewelry, they're looking for more customers. That's our focus, helping them get more customers.
SPEAKER_02:And I definitely hear you on that. But I also wonder this is like, I'm sure that you probably take a look at most everything that gets designed and has the Ospie name on it as it goes out the door, um, as far as like what the different designs are going to be. Uh, have you ever seen something and you're like, this is gonna be a slam dunk? And then it turns out that it's not, and you're kind of surprised that like, oh, I would have thought that this was exactly on the, you know, the the the broad appeal, like you were saying. And is there like maybe on the reverse where you're like, ah, this isn't gonna work, but someone assures you that it will and it and it does?
SPEAKER_01:All the time, all the time. And I will say this you know, jewelry design is not my strength. I'm very fortunate to have good people, and I try and and stay out of their way. If I get involved, it usually backfires. And I I've learned the hard way on that too many a time. So um, but there's no doubt about it that you'll have a style that's being released that you think's gonna be a home run, and it just doesn't fit. And then we're you know, we're always very aggressive in getting that out fast, but then you'll have that style that you've got one space left in a tray, and you got to throw something in there just so the tray looks full for the sales team, and that beast goes crazy. Goes crazy. Yeah, so for sure. Um how cool is that? Yeah, no, it's it's funny how that works out often.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, shoot or shoot, as they say, and uh so speaking of the the the Craig signature line, is there any anything you can tease? I always ask you at the end of these episodes to give us like a little maybe a little teaser exclusive. We got IJO, RGO, both coming up pretty soon. C BG, I'm not sure if you guys are we don't go to that one.
SPEAKER_01:We're not C BG, we're IJO, RJO, we've got the Atlanta show coming up, so we do have some shows coming up. I'm actually going to next gen. I guess this will be this will air after that, but I've got the IJO next gen, which we participate both in the IJO next gen and the RGO next gen, which have been great groups. Um, but yeah, we're you know, we're always working on stuff. Um, we're working on a big website relaunch, which will happen probably in the next 90 days here. And and what I'm excited about that isn't just the kind of facelift that we're giving it, but we've gotten a lot of feedback from customers as far as how we can make the search, the searching for product quicker. You know, we hear we're we're hearing loud and clear that you're working with a customer and you need to find something fast, or you're busy and you need to find something fast on on OSP.com. And and so we're really um taking all that feedback that we've gotten using AI as well and gonna make things much easier to find, quicker to find on our website. Yeah, we added what's in stock on our website. That was a customer um request that came came to us. Kimberly at Setterberg's asked for that. She said, I don't have time to call all the time, I need to know what's live.
SPEAKER_02:So that's so cool.
SPEAKER_01:And what's hard for is a jewelry, uh, someone that manufactures, we have different levels of completion. So we had to do quite a significant amount of programming to really be able to show what's in live because there's a lot of pieces that might be one level down that we could still get out that day. And but the other thing that we're doing that I'm that's gonna impact companies like Punchmark is we're designing everything with um kind of search engine optimized um descriptions that are really gonna be consumer friendly that's gonna push all the way through to the feed that we're giving um Punchmarks. So not only will they have a better experience when they come onto Ospie.com, they're gonna have a better experience um with um our products on their personal websites. So I think it's gonna make it more consumer friendly for that, for um, for their customers. And hopefully also, again, as we talked about, we are always trying to help them drive more traffic. You know, we released a big wedding ban event program last year. Um, Newt from Mitchell's um in Norman, Oklahoma helped a ton with that. Um, Sorel's also helped. I mean, we've had some great people help us with the, and so we're continuing to expand this wedding band event program that we're doing for stores. Again, another way for them to get people into their stores. We put together an entire kit to kind of help them market it. From a product standpoint, we're always coming out. We always we're coming out with hundreds of new styles this time of year. What I'm probably most excited about, and it goes back to um our ability to manufacture here in Minneapolis and just the, you know, we've got a 20,000 square foot facility here. We've we're coming out with a heritage collection. So we've we've had some of our former employees um come back and help us with this. It was kind of fun. Debbie, who was in customer service for a lot of years, um 30 years, Monica, you know, what were their favorites? What were the best of the best, you know, the classics that did well because we're seeing the trends go that way. And so both in bridal and fashion, we're we're releasing, you know, we've been around for 125 years and we've come up with a lot of new styles, but we've also discontinued a lot of good styles over the years. And now um we're now bringing back in the Ospie Heritage collection, all manufactured here. So cool. And um, we're super proud. I mean, and again, I think as our country celebrates 250 years, we're gonna go back, you know, everyone's gonna kind of be thinking more, going back to the roots, you know, traditions, all like that. Um, I just think it's perfect timing for the Ospie Heritage Collection. I'm I'm excited for our customers to see it.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. That's such an interesting concept. I I don't think very many places are doing that, but you occasionally see that with like Nike. They like come back and they're like, hey, this is what was hot back then. And like you said, there uh I I find that fashion and trends are are quite cyclical, you know. Give it enough time and bell. Again, bell bottom jeans are coming back, man.
SPEAKER_01:There's only so many ways you can make jeans. There's only so many ways you can make a ring. You know, I mean it's it's it's gonna go that. And we I I you know, we're one of the few companies I do believe that has the capability to manufacture at the level that we do um here in the United States. So that's a huge advantage for us as there's all these other costs that are going on right now.
SPEAKER_02:Do you uh have you ever gone back and looked at, for example, like what did OSP first make? Is is that like something that you would ever have access to? Is like what were our first line of jewelry?
SPEAKER_01:You know, we've got some pretty old catalogs. We used to do a lot of trophies back in the day. We used to do a lot of repairs too. You know, one of the people ask a lot, you know, how have we survived, you know, 125 or 105 years? You know, we've been we've been reinvented ourselves a lot. Um but we do have a lot of products and and to your point, like catalogs that go back a ton of years. And sometimes I'll get a call from somebody that'll be like I found this brochure of yours from 1943, you know, what of our deals do you want? And I'll be like, of course I want it. So, you know, that's always fun. And and um, you know, we're really, really proud of our history um because it's just it's been built by great employees and just great, great customers. And it's it's why, you know, we are what we are today, but we also know it doesn't guarantee us anything going forward. So we kind of circling back to where we were at the beginning, you know, we got to keep our foot on the gas getting better, you know. I've got to get better, companies gotta get better, our employees, all of that.
SPEAKER_02:So exciting, man. I really love following that you guys are um are trying new things, and that's part of what I find is is sometimes can kill a can kill a company is you know, the success only lasts so long, you know. It's the the news cycle and the um, I mean, even in the marketing cycle, things only have a shelf life for so long, and then they want what's what's new and fresh after that. But the fact that you guys are still coming up with new things and also pulling back the classics, uh sometimes I think about like how many awesome ideas are kind of give their time and they're they're great, but then they, you know, they kind of lose their moment. And I I sometimes think about that with Punchmark, it's like, you know, we have these great campaigns, and sometimes I'm like, yo, let's dig that one back out, give it a new coat of paint, and and we can see if it works. Just because like half the work has already been uh the ideation process has already been done, and then it's just the execution again. But uh, I'm glad to hear that you guys are doing that. I can't wait to see the Heritage Collection. Yeah, really fun.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm excited to show you.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. So, in wrapping up, I don't know if this will be super interesting to everybody, but the topic of vendor data has been something I've been discussing. And you were talking about how you're you're doing an overhaul on it. And we talked at the at the workshop, and I did a little bit of complaining a couple of episodes ago about how vendors don't always give us the best data. And I sometimes attribute it to jewelry just being like um a not as tech forward industry. It's almost like it's contrary, you know, tech and this luxury item that's worn that is, you know, decidedly not tech. Uh I've wondered sometimes when I start talking to these vendors, they don't really seem to understand the necessity of the the digital approach. Sounds like you always have.
SPEAKER_01:I guess I wonder technology, but I mean I remember when I first started and I tried to introduce email to our sales team, and I used to have to send them a fax to tell them to check to check their um to check their email. That was so I've been there. I I know I know what you're referring to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um even just recently with with with e-commerce, it's I remember when our clients did not sell online. It was like a paltry amount. And it was like we had one client that was making like, you know, two sales a month, and it was like, wow, they're really pushing the pushing the needle. I want to ask you about um what is it that's difficult from your end? Obviously, you guys have a whole manufacturing thing, you guys own the process from start to finish, seemingly. Is there like a part of it that I don't I don't always understand? Like the aspect of getting it online. What like are there costs that I'm just not fully seeing from a vendor's perspective?
SPEAKER_01:First of all, there are costs. I mean, there's costs to anything, right? And so one is you have to have, like for us, I mean, we have thousands of pieces and thousands of levels of completion and different grades and metals and blah, blah, blah. But so it's gotta be automated. So you have to have one, you have to have a system that supports automating it. You know, I think we've got it set up really well now with Punchmark. Um, so now it really falls on us. We gotta, we gotta, we're getting the data to you very easily. We just gotta, I feel we have to get you better data, more consumer-friendly data, you know, um, because that's not how we always thought. I remember kind of relaunched our website maybe 10 years ago, and I went and met with a couple of retailers on, and they're like, well, it's pretty, but it's not a you know, if efficient for us, you know, you gotta be efficient. And so I think um sometimes probably as vendors, we need to do we need to get outside these walls more often and really understand what our customers need, especially, you know, you talk about this category, what do they need on their website? And that's why, you know, we talked a lot about it when I was there with you, and I've had multiple phone calls and and even you know spent some time with Ross talking about how do we best put the data out there because we want we want to make it easier for our for our customers, consumer who's shopping on their punchmark website to find our stuff. Probably the biggest challenge that that that and again that sometimes I think can make it overwhelming where where Punchmark probably gets messed, you know, mixed in is while you guys are a leader, there are other companies out there that do what you do, and you all want it a little bit differently. A little bit different. Not everyone is as, you know, I've got custom I've got companies that want me to send them a CSV file, and I'll be like, I don't want I I want to do this, you know, seamlessly. I should be feeding you our data. You should be updating at night. Like we have the technology to do that, and sometimes some of the companies that are asking us for our data. Aren't at the same kind of level from technology that we are at. And you know, we don't have time to babysit it. Like we we want to set up our system so that it works properly, it feeds to you properly, but everyone wants it a little bit differently. So when you take, you know, the challenge of getting punch mark the data versus 10 other companies, and everyone, you know, that's where it to me it gets a little overwhelming. And um I wish um maybe we maybe you and I should start a company in the middle that kind of scrubs the data and makes it usable for all the website companies out there.
SPEAKER_02:I've always had this dream of like the standardized online data form for for vendors. And it's like, here's like the the categories that are required by every single tech company. You refer to those other ones, I have no idea who they are. Uh, you know, uh, but they all require one image, one product description, you know, they all require uh these material, like what materials they are, are their sidestones, those kinds of things. If we were to set up, you know, 16 um fields and standardize the names, well, suddenly maybe it makes the vendors easier. And what I try to keep at at the focus, just like with what you've alluded to this entire podcast, is uh it's about you have to listen and keep the consumer who are these retailers at the heart. And what is it that we're trying to do? My goal is for like every retailer to just sell so much jewelry online that they just don't even know what to do, or actually just sell jewelry, period. Maybe that means in store. And as a result, it's like, okay, if we can get, we meaning punch mark, if we can get our ego out of the way of requiring this stuff, there is something to be said about being this leader and dictating that this is the standard. I think that's been true for um even you know, seatbelts, like uh I think it was Ford, they had the patent and then they at a certain point let it lapse so that all of the other car companies could do that and as a result saved, you know, yeah, millions of lives. And I think that at a certain point, it's like we do want to be these leaders, and there is something to be said about proprietary knowledge, but at the same time, if we get out of the way of our ourselves, sometimes I'm like, okay, what if we just invited everybody to like a summit? It should be like, okay, what is it that we should be? That could be the uh But who who is it that like dictates that? You know, is it it can't be the vendors because the vendors you'll give it to us every way imaginable. The bridal companies will be angry at the general companies will be angry at the the fashion people. Uh in tech, there's there's people that have they've made their entire livelihood about standardizing. And to me, it's just like, okay, like who should be running this? Is it me? Maybe, but at the same time, it's like someone should probably do it because of what you just said. Like, I'm sure that you get asked by everybody and their mom to give it to them in a in a data, right?
SPEAKER_01:And we want them to have our data. It's just we want to be able to send the data one way. We'll give you a more it would be great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, that was my uh my discussion. I think that is so an a topic that I hope to pursue for the rest of um my time in this department is like, all right, how can we make this easier for everybody and make more?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we want to keep getting better at it. So let's I'm here to I'm here to part.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate that, Greg. But I think as we wrap this up, if people are interested in Ospie and Victor, um, where should they be going to learn more about carrying your line in store?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, go to ospie.com. It's probably um the best. We're still working on the Victor site. You can always call our customer service, they're the best. They answer the phone, you won't get stuck in voicemail and they're fun. You can get them at 866-553-1515. And then I try and be at every industry thing I can, you know, out there learning and getting um closer with our customers and seeing our customers and all those things. So I'll be at RJO, I'll be at IJO. Sometimes I'm in a silly costume if uh the marketing team requires it. Sometimes sometimes I get dressed normal, which is nice. So um, and then of course we're in the plum club at JCK, located right uh right next to the cafes. So you can come and get a snack and stop by the uh Ospy Victor booth. But you know, we got a lot of great friends in this industry, and we're always looking for um more friends. So if you haven't tried us, we'd greatly appreciate the opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:There you go. Really appreciate your time, Craig. This is always uh one of my favorite interviews of the year. Um, I look forward to seeing you at JCK. Hopefully, we can uh get a chance to chat. Maybe we'll move forward with our steps for uh vendor data domination. It's gonna come right around the corner. We'll be helping all those retailers get uh all their data right on their website. Thanks everybody. We'll be back next week, Tuesday, with another episode. Cheers. Bye. Alright, everybody. That's the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening. My guest this week was Craig McMean, president of Ospie. This episode was brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, Michael Burfo. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cochran. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and leave us feedback on punchmark.com slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E. Thanks, we'll be back next week Tuesday with another episode. Bye.
