What Stephen Barnes Learned from His First Year as Owner of IJO

Stephen Barnes shares what his first year as owner of IJO really looked like, from decision-making and show strategy to staying grounded when gold prices swing. We talk through how independent jewelers can win with stronger vendor partnerships, smarter education, and a practical approach to tech and e-commerce. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Preview

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back everybody to In the Loop. What is up, everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop. This week I'm joined by Steven Barnes, and he is the president and owner of IJO. And you probably already know what IJO is. They are one of the largest buying groups in the jewelry industry. And I've had the opportunity to interview the owner and president Steven Barnes several times now. And each time we kind of check in on what the last year has taught him as well as what his goals are. He's very transparent, and I think it's a really awesome learning opportunity for me and others to kind of see what you can still be learning, even when you are in this position of leadership. And he's uh very transparent about uh the kind of mindset and vision for IJL, which has been around for a man, over 50 years at this point, and he has a vision for the next 50 years as well. And I really enjoy speaking with him. We talk about the upcoming Slater shows and how he's navigating uh gold fluctuating all the time. It's a really cool conversation. I always enjoy speaking with him, and I hope you enjoy.

Punchmark Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_00 1:15

This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the jewelry industry's favorite website platform and digital growth agency. Our mission reaches way beyond technology. With decades of experience and long-lasting industry relationships, Punchmark enables jewelry businesses to flourish in any marketplace. We consider our clients our friends, as many of them have been friends way before becoming clients. Punchmark's own success comes from the fact that we have a much deeper need and obligation to help our friends succeed. Whether you're looking for better e-commerce performance, business growth, or campaigns that drive traffic and sales, PunchMark's website and marketing services were made just for you. It's never too late to transform your business and stitch together your digital and physical worlds in a way that achieves tremendous growth and results. Schedule a guided demo today at punchmark.com slash go. And now back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Awesome. Yeah, this is uh one of my favorite episodes that I've had the chance to have as a recurring uh guest. I had you on first when you were with Edge Retail Academy talking about uh succession and um retirement planning. And then I had you on when it was announced that you were the uh the president, and then we had a follow-up episode, and then we did one when you became uh the owner, and now we're gonna be talking about your first year as an owner. Um, I guess maybe could you just kind of set up for people what has the past year been like as owner of IJO?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Well, I can say it's a it's a dream come true. Um, in the fact that, you know, I served as president for a little over um 18 months. So I kind of got my feet wet and knowing what was going on um from the corporate side of IJO. But um, as many of you know, um I've I've been a member of my family's jewelry store, has been a member of IJO for almost 27 years now. So um I won't say there was many surprises for me. Um I've I've kind of grown up in the organization and uh so it was just a natural progression, the the way I kind of came into the position. And uh and as owner, like I said, there's really no surprises. Um it's just been uh one one one good thing after another for sure. I guess no buyer's remorse, nothing, nothing along those lines? Not at all. If anything, I'm ecstatic. It's actually way better than I envisioned. Um, you know, I think our membership has really done a great job of embracing the change um and really um being very hopeful and excited about the future um and and what we've got um planned and the vision that we have for IJA.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Uh, it's really exciting. And are you able to draw any distinction between what a what a president is versus what an owner is? Obviously, an owner, it's um it sounds like it's purely just like a like their stock almost, like you own 51% or more at this point to be a primary owner. Is that kind of all it comes down to? Or is there a difference in like the actual leadership aspect of it?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, from a leadership standpoint, there wasn't um really much difference other than um, you know, not being an owner. Some of the financial decisions that um had to take place had to go through, of course, the previous owner. Um, so it does give me the flexibility to make the final decisions from a financial standpoint um that that affects, you know, our membership and things like that. So overall, I wouldn't say there's a much distinction from a leadership standpoint, just from a financial side of things, is all.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

And it sounds like IGO is doing quite well. Uh, we just went to and we punch mark went to um IJO uh Colorado Springs, and it sounded like it was very well attended. They say that that is like the most popular show that you can do. It it's because of it's the Hotel the Broadmoor or something like that, and it's incredibly popular. And everyone, Jason was like, I need to be on that show because he just loves staying there. Uh, is that like part of like the decision-making aspect? Is like we're gonna pick an awesome place that people want to go.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, we we, you know, the Broadmoor definitely knows how to do it right. Um, when it comes to customer service, um, you know, it is probably one of the most uh nicest places I've ever stayed in my entire life. You walk, um, everybody greets you with a smile, they're opening doors for you. Uh, like I said, when it comes to customer service, they absolutely know how to do it. Um, and it's it's it really set the tone for I think our our retailers and our vendors uh together to know that this is the way it's supposed to be done, right? So when you're in a great environment, a beautiful place, um the weather turned out amazing. I mean, I think it was like in the 60s or 70s, maybe even the 80s, a couple of days that we were there. Um, it was just a gorgeous place to be. And I think everybody was really happy with that. And happy people turn into happy buyers. And so I think everyone had a really good show. Um, it was one of the most well-attended shows that we've had in in recent years. Um, as far as a percentage of our membership, almost 70% of our membership attended the show. Um, heard lots of great buzz from our our vendor partners who just said it was their a record show for them for uh people doing business with them. So once again, when we when we make everyone happy, then then then we're successful at it. So we we feel really good about that.

Choosing Charlotte For A Show

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah. And so on the topic of shows, um, maybe I'll go back, Paul, and I'll try to find the clip from uh the first interview when you were uh announced as as president. But I was asking, what do you think about a show, an IJO show in Charlotte, North Carolina? Beautiful place, Punchmark headquarters there. We can show you a really good time and pretty exciting. You actually you listened to me. I I love that, Steve. That's so kind of you. 100% you, Michael.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I gotta listen to that. Yeah, no, I gotta admit, you know, obviously for me being from North Carolina, I'm very proud of that. And uh, and it's something that I think that Charlotte is a very special place and uh centrally located for a lot of our travelers. So it would be very easy for our jewelers to get to and vendor partners. So um we settled on Charlotte for for that reason and the fact that, like I said, I just want to show off North Carolina to to all of our jewelers. Now, we did come there, I think it was in 2008, if I remember correctly, when we were there last. Um, so we're excited to go back there um um next year for sure.

Gold Prices Tariffs And Retail Reality

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That was a big deal back in the day for it was it was in uh Charlotte, yeah, I think right around 2008. And Punchmark started in I believe 2007. And what was so funny about that one is like it was a huge cost saving moment for um for the you know, Dan and Ross, the the co-founders of Punchmark, that it was there and they didn't have to pay for flights. I remember that was like a really big deal because I don't know if they were prepared to fly somewhere at that point. So um excited to have everybody back. I know that we've already started discussing how we can, you know, participate as hosts in some capacity and and try to show, you know, not just part uh our our clients, but also our um, you know, just prospects and just friends and people. It's a really cool city. I I lived there for uh just about you know, just over six years, and I think it's uh got a lot to offer. So very excited for everybody to be coming in there. But now down to the business. I kind of wanted to ask about some very important topics, and people love to hear uh your perspective on things, especially um as a uh I guess past owner of a store and now uh leader of this of this major jewelry buying group. I wanted to ask about, I mean, gold. It's the most popular topic right now. Briefly breached, I think 5,100, 5,200 uh an ounce, which is insane. It's now coming back down to earth. Uh how does that, first of all, make you feel as a uh leader? And also how is it making your um members uh impacting their business?

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Sure. So, you know, I think that we have lots of challenges uh um behind us and ahead of us. Um not only do we have the the challenges with the gold, we have, you know, um tariff uh challenges that we still are having to deal with. Um so all of this causes just, I call it a disruption within our marketplace or almost a distraction. Um, I think a lot of times as retailers, uh, we get hung up on the numbers and um and and say, oh my gosh, I'll never, you know, with gold being$5,000 an ounce, there's I'm never gonna sell another gold chain or I'm never gonna sell a gold wedding band. But I think the reality of that is that our customers really don't, you know, they they don't have a sense of that value. And uh, and yes, you know, that gold wedding band now is gonna be$1,500. Um, but I still feel like that people are getting engaged, people are still getting married, they're still gonna be buying these pieces, and we're seeing that. Um, so yes, I do feel like it has affected um on the retail level for sure, uh to some degree, but in general, I don't think it's affected it that much. Um, and from a vendor standpoint, whole high gold prices um may curb some people from buying um and holding off or maybe selling through on some of their inventory that they currently have. But at the end of the day, um I I say as a retailer, you know, we're here to sell people and to sell them um on the beauty of jewelry and um and and the the life how it lasts a lifetime. Um and there's sometimes no price you can put on that. So I I think as I don't want to say it becomes irrelevant, but if we're doing our job as retailers and and talking about the product, talking about value, um, the value is there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Quite interesting because it also sort of reminds me weirdly of the price of gas, uh, where yes, the the price is just what the price is. And whether it's you know$5 a gallon or it's$2.50 a gallon, I still need to drive my car. And whether it's maybe the number of times I'm going to drive it or the frequency or the um number of experiences I will endeavor on using my car, maybe that'll fluctuate. But at the same time, it's like, what am I gonna do? Just uh, you know, sell my car and just not use it. Unfortunately, that's not an option for me. And I do think that's kind of gold is almost like that fuel of the jewelry industry. And same thing with silver. I I don't ever talk about silver because I feel like it goes in hand in hand, it's not as uh as um rolls off the tongue as well. But in the same point, I do feel like it's just what what we're dealing with right now. And from all the conversations I've had with retailers, it hasn't really seemed to curb all of the sales that one might expect, at least from my view.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Right, absolutely. And you know, when when when most um retail jewelry stores are made up of some form of bridal or diamond product, um, and very actual little gold is in some of those mountings and things. So it doesn't really affect the overall um value of those pieces, so to speak. So that's that's a very little uh there. But one thing that I've noticed, and and I can't speak for all jewelry stores, but I can only speak for mine. We've actually sold more gold wedding bands over the last two or three years than we did previous years to that. So even when gold was$1,500 an ounce or$2,000 an ounce, we've sold more gold wedding bands when gold was three, four, and five thousand dollars an ounce than we did when it was a thousand to two thousand dollars an ounce. So I don't know the answer to that is why that happened, but for some reason, that's just in my store how it has happened.

Antwerp Travel And Global Uncertainty

SPEAKER_01 12:48

It's a very interesting thing to follow. Uh I find it interesting because uh increasingly my friends around town, they know I work in jewelry and they have started to see the the gold conversation seep into the the general um conversation zeitgeist, I guess, where people are starting to discuss it and people around my age, around the 30s to 40s age, are starting to decide like what luxuries will they um put their money towards, if it's going to be a stock or if it's going to be in luxury goods of some sort. And increasingly I I do find that the conversation around gold is shifting towards this more um weird to say, like a stable asset as opposed to the the conversation used to be around like Bitcoin because there was almost like a guaranteed quote unquote guaranteed return on investment where it was going up. Whereas with gold, uh I actually took out most of my money that was in stocks for a while and I put it into gold because I don't understand how the stocks are still up some days. And I I I'm not a financial person, I don't understand international markets. And for me, I just know that the gold, at least I can kind of see how it fluctuates and relates to the the international markets. But I guess that's neither here nor there. Maybe on the same topic of international markets. How about the impacts of what is going on in the Middle East? Um, the impacts of ship global and international shipping. Have you had any discussions around that with uh with your international vendors or retailers?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, so we've had a little bit. Um, of course, uh, you know, IJO, one of our um programs that we offer is that we travel um to Antwerp, Belgium twice a year. Um and we are getting ready uh in about three weeks to carry a group of about 35 jewelers um to Antwerp to of course to buy diamonds. Um and there have been some concerns about the war and and things like that that are going on over in the Middle East. But the the general consensus is that um, you know, it's business is normal. Um and and the the trades are still happening, um, people are still getting engaged, two people are still buying diamonds. So, you know, our our our jewelers are not um scared to go over there. There's no apprehension on their part. Um, and our vendor partners have been very gracious and kind of given us an update, um, whether that's every week or whatever, what's going on over there, and if they feel uncomfortable or something of that nature. And and and at this point, no, there's there's been no um there's been no downturn in in the in the market that we can see at this point.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

That's good to know. I don't know even how to uh dive into that subject because on the one hand, you need to speak with someone who is being directly impacted, but at the same time, I sometimes feel like jewelry is so um uh widely dispersed. It's not just reliant on one singular country or one singular city. It's so um interconnected at this point that I haven't been able to kind of nail down what the story would be around that. And it's just something I I read the news every day and try to follow it as best as I can.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, yeah. And you know, we we've got some great partners overseas that we we deal with. Um and the the biggest thing is communication. They've been very good about communicating with us, um, as as quote unquote boots on the ground over there, seeing what's going on and and letting us know what's going on um over there. So it's been a great, great partnership for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

That's great to hear. Now, Steven, I I know you when you took uh a greater leadership position, especially when you became president, you were starting to discuss these um initiatives that you had uh had kind of taken on as kind of like your your core guiding principles. And you've now been leading IJO for I think about three years at this point, but now with one full year as um you know as the owner. I was wondering if you are starting to see any any of the fruits of that labor. Like what does it look like? Because I know that you've talked about wanting to have a 50-year, 100-year vision for IGO, but it is nice to start to see some results in the short term. What is that what does that balance look like for you right now?

Building Engagement With Member Resources

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah, so one of the biggest things that I think that um we started with was um really trying to dig into our our relationships with our vendor partners and our retail partners. And what I mean by that is um, you know, we're we're a pretty large organization, and uh, and for us to know every single vendor, every single uh member of our organization, um, you know, it's it's tough. But we've done a really good job as a team of IJO of really trying to get to know who our vendor partners are and who our retail jewelers are and finding out ways that we can better their lives. How can we pour into them and help them and make them more successful? You know, IJO has a ton of resources um available to all of our members, and most of our members don't take advantage of some of those resources. Like we have our IJO Business College where they can come and get one-on-one help with their stores. Um, we've got marketing assets, we've got, of course, our Antwerp broker program to where we can help you, you know, sell more diamonds in your stores. Um, we've got amazing educational programs at our conferences. Um, we've got lots of great things like that that that most of our, or I won't say most, that some of our jewelers are just not taking advantage of. So we're finding out ways how can we help them? How can we introduce them to some of those um things on a more personal level to get them more involved? And from that, what we're seeing is more engagement from our membership. Like I just said, we just had um, I won't say it's a record show for us, but we had more of a percentage of our membership attend this past show than in previous years. So that's that's the evolvement that we're looking to go to. Like I said, we don't ever want to be the largest organization out there. We just want to provide our members, our core members, those who really understand what we try to do to help them continue to grow uh and provide those resources for them in a very meaningful way.

Next Gen Jewelers And Trust

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It sounds like attendance is is, of course, uh a very important aspect of it. IJO is dispersed across the um across the US and hearing the balance of, you know, of course, you're only seeing each other twice a year, but there's uh a lot of other days when you're not seeing each other. Being involved in their business um sounds so core to IJO. You've also started to discuss uh you started your next gen conference in uh in beautiful Florida, which I think was a really good hook. Um, that's been going on for I think two years now. How has that um kind of developed and what are you learning from the the next generation of jewelers?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Sure. So we just come off of our third year. Yeah, third year. So we we bounced around a little bit. The first year we were in um Fort Myers, Florida. Uh the second year we were in Savannah, and this past year in January, we were in Nashville, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Oh, wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

It was it was it was a great um the that group is just so amazing to me. Um, you know, I think as a younger jeweler back when I was in my younger days, I'm not gonna give my age, but back when I was in my 20s and 30s, um, I was I was very desperate. I wish I would have had a group like this younger next gen group of IJO jewelers um to lean into because what I found is this is this core group of about 30 or 40 jewelers, um, they really lean into each other. They they are talking about challenges that they're all going through, whether that's family challenges, whether that's you know, family challenges, whether that is um uh, you know, working for their parents, working for someone else, all the different dynamics that they're going through, um, and they can lean in on each other for for that camaraderie. Um, but but what the other thing about that group is so special is they are really intelligent. Um, I don't think that some of the older generations of jewelers are giving them full credit on what those guys and girls are able to do. If they would just, you know, let off the leash a little bit, give them a little bit of freedom to run their stores, and mom and dad would step back and let them implement some of the ideas that they want to do and some of the change, it would make dramatic differences to their businesses. So um we're doing everything as an organization of IJO to continue to pour into that group because they are our next generation. Those are the leaders that I want to see leading our organization over the next 10, 20, 30 years. Um, and I'm excited to be able to continue to pour into them, mentor them, and and coach them any way that we can.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, it's it's a wild thing to start to kind of witness, at least for myself. I'm I'm not as young as I as I remember either. When I joined Punchmark, I was I was 22 and now at 31. Uh I'm not as young as I was. But what I do think is uh I'm starting to kind of pay attention to is this thing called tech fluency. So tech fluency is uh a level of of literacy, but like in the form of almost like a native speaker. So someone who um you know learns a language. At birth, but also someone compared to someone who learns a language as a second language or even more advanced. And like, what is the difference between that? And I really can't remember a world before computers. Uh, I remember learning them. I remember that when I was like five or six having a computer class. But at this point, I'm I'm just plugged into the internet. I just there's like a level of of understanding for some of this tech. Like, how do I know that this is a phishing scam and it's nothing that matters? And if I explain it to my parents, my parents are actually quite tech fluent, but at the same time, it's a second language to them sometimes. And I've started to see that also with some of our next generation retailers, that there is just a level of understanding and like um second-naturedness to the relationship to tech that I find um quite inspiring, but also just like it you can't ignore it at this point. The divide, I don't even want to call it a divide, but like the um uh the gulf that happens sometimes between people who are embracing it with open arms and folks that are rather hesitant is becoming much more apparent. And I do think that there is a lot of business to be won by those who are willing to take, yeah, like all these words that we say, like omnichannel solution and uh, you know, next level kind of uh clienteling, those things I really do find um that there is business to be won there.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Yeah, for sure. And and once again, I think you you hit the nail on the head with the fact that this younger generation, they're not scared to embrace AI and they're not scared to try different things um with different platforms and things. Whereas the older generations, mom, dad, you know, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no. I'm that they they they put the brakes on because they just don't know and they're they're scared of what that could lead to. Whereas that younger generation are not as scared to take some of those chances and and and do those things that they know will propel their business forward.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

I'm starting to see what's very heartwarming to me is when we have our client workshop and I get a chance to actually put eyes on our clients, and increasingly we're seeing um a first generation, an older generation attending with the next generation, but they attend at the same time. And what's very cool is I think that that's the best of both worlds, where you are seeing this kind of uh level of experience and and kind of there is something to be said about like the way it's been done, but also kind of people that are willing to embrace like these, yeah, emerging tech. I'm seeing that that combination seems to be winning and uh something I hope to kind of follow along as we as we continue to uh be disrupted by all this technology uh increasingly.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah, and and I think you're exactly right. Um, as as as an older generation, if I had someone that that was in their 20s and they were interested in this technology or whatever, me I I may not understand it, but just sitting and listening to it um or being shown a presentation on it is gonna give me a better understanding. And and like I said, I don't have to know how it works or or even want to do the work that goes behind it. But just knowing that that's there and giving the you know the blessing or whatever for that younger generation to move forward with a project like that is great. So I'm assuming that's exactly what you're saying with that, you know, the first generation and the next generation attending your workshop, at least that that first generation is hearing it firsthand and and is able to support that in a in a positive way.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

And what about just to put the question to you, Steven, is I'm sure it's quite uh you have to be thinking on your feet pretty quickly as well. Because if you were to say, if you were to just stand there and ignore emerging technology, I I can't help but think that IGO would fall behind. Uh, how has your relationship stayed dynamic with with this emerging tech? Granted, you're not as involved in the day-to-day of a jewelry store owner, but you are still a business owner. Um, have you had to kind of have that conversation with yourself as well? And like what you need to stay up with as well as like what you can let pass by?

AI And New Training Tools

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm just gonna go back two or three years ago. You know, AI was just kind of coming out. Um, it's one of those things where I was like, I don't know if I really need to kind of learn anything about this. It's just, you know, I think it's gonna be a who knows what it's gonna do. But uh it's gonna be a fad. Yeah, I but I quickly learned really over probably the last, I want to say 12 to 18 months, how important AI is is currently and is gonna be in the future. So we have embraced it um as an organization. Uh, we use AI and different things that we do from from you know financial analytics to helping us, you know, curate uh, you know, different um educational programs, all those sorts of things. Um we're using AI to help us with some of that. Um but at the same time, there's other platforms out there. For instance, um at this uh most recent conference, we've just partnered up with um Jewelry Sales Academy and we've launched a uh LMS software that's gonna be for IJO Jewelers to be able to have an educational platform where IJO can put out content, where we can put out, you know, seminar sessions. Um, we're able to hopefully in the future be able to record some of our maybe keynote speakers at our conferences or some of our um educational sessions and things at our conferences to be able to use that on our platform for when our jewelers get back to their offices and they're like, oh, I remember sitting through that, but I I couldn't remember exactly what all it was, or I took bad notes. They can re-watch some of those sessions and be inspired and learn um back when they're home. So we're seeing that uh LMS uh software as a really opportunity for us to help educate and continue to grow our education within our membership.

E-Commerce For Small Versus Large Stores

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah. And I guess I just see a ton of encouraging signs for you know the relationship and intersection between tech and jewelry. Granted, hey, full disclosure, working with Punchmark, we do websites. So this does tie into us, but it's finally like I can still remember the days when people did not take jewelry websites um as seriously. They were seen as a as like uh an online billboard, and people wanted them to, they wanted the domain, they wanted to show their location and their store hours, uh, they wanted to kind of show their brand, but they were not prepared to hand over the the relationship and sales aspect of things. And of course, the pandemic had a huge hand in that shift, but also increasingly, uh, I did a whole episode on this, but uh, we saw an incredible growth in e-commerce this past year, with uh it, you know, it was just barely behind 2021. And I have, and again, 2021 had a lot of things going for it, and uh for e-commerce. And I think that this upcoming year in 2026, at least the trends uh currently state we're gonna smash every single record imaginable when it comes to uh e-commerce performance. Is that a is the e-commerce landscape something that you guys have been thinking about at IGL and what that means for a uh a retail jeweler in in this day and age? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

I you know, I'm gonna continue to support our independent jewelers and the fact that they're brick and mortar stores. And I think that they're always gonna find value there, that people are gonna want to come in because jewelry is such an intimate um luxury item. I think that people are still gonna want to come in. They're gonna want to talk to somebody to talk about what it is. They're gonna be looking for the service that goes behind it as an independent jeweler. So as much as I would say, you know, yes, we see that the trends are things are shifting a little bit more to e-commerce. I still feel like that for uh the the mom and pops, meaning the the stores that are, you know, I'm picking a number here, the under the two under$2 million family-owned mom and pop jewelry store. I think that e-commerce is just going to be almost uh a second part of their business. It's not gonna be their main focus. However, I feel like the larger stores, those stores that are two, three, five, ten, fifteen million dollar operations, I think they can operate almost in a separate model with e-commerce because they've got, of course, some resources that they can dump into providing a more um smooth uh e-commerce experience. I think, I think the challenge that everybody gets is we want all of our websites, if we're going to do e-commerce, to be like Amazon, right? Well, there's no there's no telling how many billions of dollars Amazon spends for their website to be as functional and easy to use as what Amazon is. So being able to provide that smooth, um, easy transition in that e-commerce is is a challenge for smaller stores. But the large stores, I definitely I agree with you. I think there's room for them to potentially grow in that area for sure.

Punchmark Sponsor Break

Retailer Vendor Balance Inside IJO

SPEAKER_01 31:00

You know, and again, you know, you know your retailers best, but one thing that has been encouraging is kind of the ability to go from, you know, one sale a month to two or three sales a month is a pretty significant uh win, in my in my view, at least from what I've seen uh these smaller stores being able to do. And I think that you're you're correct. Uh it will always be for these smaller stores a more secondary um aspect of their business. I don't think there was a time when I did think that your online your website should be your cash register. Like I thought that you should be trying to funnel all of your sales into your website, even the ones in store, because it had a longer hook. So, for example, if someone came in, it was not a buy immediately moment, it should be able to be like, hey, just buy it on our website and we'll get it to you immediately, or you can pick it up in store. But I will say, the sometimes people write it off entirely, and I'm not prepared to let uh let that happen. I think that there are so many um examples of people putting in just a little bit of work into their experiences. And you know, if I was to say, hey, if you do this, you're gonna get three free sales, free, quote unquote, sales uh a a month, man, it'd be it'd be tough to kind of turn that uh turn that down. So I I think that there is a balance, but I think some some hard work just goes uh goes a long way. Yeah, for sure. All right, everybody, we're gonna take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. This episode of In the Loop is brought to you by Punchmark. We've been hard at work rolling out new e-commerce experiences designed specifically for jewelry retailers, including expanding payment options like Apple Pay, Google Pay, and more. It's all about making checkout faster, easier, and more seamless for your customers so you can convert more sales. If you're ready to modernize your website and unlock better performance, book a demo today at punchmark.com slash go. And now back to the show. And we're back. Now I also want to discuss. So you come from a retailer at um, you know, kind of background, but I also wanted to hear about balancing the vendor to retailer relationship as well. Again, we talked about vendors initially and how they're balancing the gold market. I'm sure retailers have your ear quite a bit. And also I do find that, like, you know, it is a buying group, so like retailers do need to come, you know, maybe not first, but you need to have they have to have your ear. How do you balance that relationship? I'm sure that some people want to have things go more in the vendor's point of uh perspective. And I'm sure there's a lot of retailers that want the opposite. Being the middle ground isn't always fun. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, so one of the things, um, even though I am from a retail background, one of the things that I thought um in the initiatives that I've put forward over the last year or so is um that we are a member organization. When I mean by member organization is we have retailers and we have vendors, and they're all members of our organization, and we shouldn't treat any of them differently because they're members of our organization. And at the end of the day, we all need each other. Our retailers need our vendor partners, our vendor partners need our retailers, and IJO needs both of them to be successful. So once we can figure that out and we can say, hey, we're all in this together. How do we make this where all of us benefit? And so we are trying our best to put programs in place to get our jewelers to be more dedicated to our vendor partners. Um, they're buying more from them, we're incentivizing them more to do that. Um, at the same token, our vendors are um, we're doing a really good job of cultivating our vendors, bringing in vendor partners that are not competing with each other because there's only so much piece of the pie, right? Um and and if and and if and I'll use diamond, you know, vendors as an example. You know, if we've got 20 diamond vendors, bringing in two or three more diamond vendors is not gonna really do anything but divide up that diamond vendor pool of buying power. So we're doing a really um conscious effort of only trying to bring in new vendors that are non-competing um and that are gonna provide a different product mix for our jewelers, which in turn is gonna help them in their business in the long run, too.

Fewer Vendors Deeper Partnerships

SPEAKER_01 35:43

It is uh an interesting thing because you do want to balance, yeah, like having new blood in there to oxygenate things. But also it's like, yeah, there's only you can only stock your shells with so much, so much jewelry. And what I've heard from the relationships that uh from the conversations I've had on here and also in person, is that the time of just like taking random shots with a with a a vendor because they have a good sales pitch at a show, just taking a random, you know, let's try this out. It doesn't seem like it's as um pertinent anymore. It seems like people are kind of scaling down the number of vendors that they do business with, but are going more deeper and more like uh they want they want these vendors that care about their success. And that's the conversation I've had with Craig McBean with Ospie is how uh they have a buyback guarantee with their with their product, which I think is just if you were giving me a business 101, I'd be like, I don't know if that makes a ton of sense. But his strategy behind it is like if it's not selling for you, then we are not being a good partner. So we want to make you whole and we want to have the opportunity to to keep you going because it's it's not enough for us to just sell to you. We need you to be successful to cultivate a longer-term relationship. Are you seeing that as a positive trend for retailers where it's maybe fewer relationships, but deeper ones? Uh, I I know it's like a shift since the the older days.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and Craig is a perfect example at Ospie. Um, they they definitely do it right, they understand that it is a partnership. And I'm gonna go a little deeper here. You know, as retailers, um, you know, I think that we try the old school thought is you go to a show or a jewelry salesman comes to your store and you buy a product because it's pretty, you like it, and you think you can sell it. Okay. Well, that's great, but then you are trying to spread that over 20, 30, 40, maybe a hundred vendors, right, that you're buying from. So you're not really important to any of those vendors. Okay. So you've got X amount of dollars that you spend per year on jewelry and that you sell. And if that's divided by a hundred vendors, then it's very, very small. If you were to, if that was, you know, half that number, or let's just say it was 20 vendors, then you're much more important to those vendors. Those vendors then see you as a true partner because they are, they, they, you're buying more product from them. They want to help you be successful. Maybe you've got product that doesn't work in your store, they're willing to swap it out for a different product that does sell. That's what a true partnership looks like. Um, and I think that the the shift over the last, I don't know, five, 10, 15 years has been exactly that. I think that vendors get it, that retailers get it, that it's a true partnership, um, that we are in this together, and and how can we make both of our businesses better from both a retail and a vendor standpoint for sure.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

It's really, again, quite interesting to think about because I've had a lot of, especially in the past um year after I've started to take over the vendor program at Punchmark, uh no vendors really want to admit that. Uh, you know, they don't really seem to want to say like the retailers that buy a lot from us are more important to us. Um, that probably does seem to be that does make sense because, you know, if this one is buying, you know, a hundred and this person is buying one, then obviously the hundred does make more sense. Is that something that you've kind of seen in like real time as like a you know, again, past owner and now a uh kind of a leader of this organization, kind of seeing that that the business end of relationships does kind of make sense like that?

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah, it I I I'll say this from from day one that it's a hundred percent about the relationship. Um, you build those relationships with those vendor partners and uh and and you become successful together. And uh, and once again, just trying to spread the wealth too thin um doesn't do good for anybody. Um and it's a lot you know harder to manage. I mean, when I was in the consulting world and got to see some real world data, it would surprise you that that the average jeweler probably have between 75 and 100 vendors that they work with. Um and so that's a lot of relationships to try to manage. Um, and and at the same time, I think it's a disservice to try to spread it so the end. And so yeah, I'm I'm definitely a proponent of you know being more meaningful, creating wonderful partnerships that where you both grow together is is very important for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah, I keep I want to put together like this like the advice for retailers that I have heard so many times that now I give that advice. And it's like reorder your fast sellers, uh, get rid of your your age inventory. Like I feel like those ones, I've just heard them so many times. And it's yeah, and double into your um double down on your on your your best vendors and your your best relationships because man, I had no idea it was that sprinkled, if that's like a a real like um example.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

The idea of of of having yeah, like 75 relationships to maintain as opposed to like 20.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah, and I don't have the I don't have the statistic in front of me, but several years ago when I did a lot of analytics like this, it's something crazy like um 80 or 85 percent of a jewelry store's business is done with less than 20 vendors, meaning that that that the majority or 80% of the business that the of the merchandise you sell in your store is really from 20 vendors. The other 20% or so is done by the other 50, 70, or 100 vendors that you might be dealing with. So once again, it's a matter of let's how can we make it more be more important to this group over here that we're already doing business with?

Leadership Support At The Top

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Oh man, what a really that's a great conversation unto itself that I would love to explore more. Maybe I'll uh with the upcoming client workshop, which you'll be uh in attendance in beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina, uh, that's kind of something maybe I'll start asking around about because uh I I'm very interested in like the the business aspect of of those relationships and and how to balance them because I know that some of the sales reps, man, I really like them, but I can only imagine if you go in, you see that this one line just does all of your business. I can only imagine what it's like. You have to really kind of pay attention to that more. So very cool. Um now, Steven, just to kind of end this on a on a more you know introspective kind of uh thought, I was curious as to I've I've just been talking to Ross and I have him on uh once a quarter, once a half, uh to discuss business leadership and also what it's like um you know growing a company. And I guess I kind of wanted to pose this question to you is what is it like now at the top, you know, owner, to be leading? And who do you go to with your questions? And like, how do you actually continue the mindset of learning if you're at the top? I've put this question to to Ross before, and he sometimes is like, you know, it is luckily he has a co-founder and and two partners, and he finds that he can kind of they keep him in check. Um, how do you do that?

C12 Peer Group And Blind Spots

SPEAKER_02 43:13

So I have a phenomenal executive team at IJO um made up of Karen Beardsworth, um our financial CFO, um Jennifer Um Harold, who is our vice president, and Sam uh Larson, who is our um director of vendor services and partnerships. And the the four of us meet um regularly, almost once a week, to talk about you know different things that are going on within our company. Um but on top of that, we have an incredible board of directors for IJO. It's made up of 10 retail jewelers amongst the IJO membership and um four of our vendor partners. Um and as a matter of fact, we just had a uh a monthly Zoom meeting um yesterday. Um every month we we meet on Zoom for about an hour. Where we talk about IJO, we talk about the challenges we have or ideas that we've got. We run it by them. So I'm getting a very good mix of information from them. So we also have in-person meetings at our conferences. So those are just some of the things from an industry standpoint that kind of keep me in check and who I bounce ideas off of. But probably the most important group to me, I am part of a round table, a monthly round table in my hometown of other businesses. And that the organization is called C12. It's made up of uh 12 other business owners. Um once a month, um, one day we uh allocate a full day. Um we get together, we talk about um, we have uh curriculum materials that we learn about our businesses, how to make our businesses more successful. One of our um one of us gets to present um over about a two-hour period of time our business. We we get really raw and down and dirty. We present financials, we show everything about our business. So it's basically like a um a think tank of of 12 quote unquote other business like mind business men that we get around and women, we get around, we talk about our businesses, and they they kind of give you blind, help you see your blind spots, maybe poke some holes and some ideas that that you have. Um, and and this group is a very eclectic group. So um, you know, I'm actually one of quote unquote smaller um type of uh businesses in there. We've got uh two or three businesses that are doing um close to a billion dollars in revenue a year. So these are not in the jewelry industry, by the way. These are all different industries. Um, but it's it's it's amazing that no matter if you're a billion-dollar company or a million-dollar company, um, we have a lot of the same challenges, um, whether that's you know, internal personnel, um, marketing issues, um, HR issues. It doesn't matter. We're we're all sometimes in the same boat. And it's so great to be able to plug into those guys' mind and understand some some of what they're thinking and how to make our businesses better. So for me, that's my biggest sounding board is to be able to pull from other industries um and how they do things and how I can apply that to my business, to IJO and make it better every single day.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Wow. What a cool thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Uh and is that in person or is that on Zoom? That's an in-person meeting, like I said, once a month for an it's a full, full day, eight-hour session that we we just spend with each other and really pour into each other. And like I said, I've been a part of the organ that organization for a little over 15 years, and and it's truly helped me in my trajectory of of where I've been from, you know, just owning my own store through all the things that I've done to leading up to where I am right now.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Wow, that is really super cool to hear. Uh yeah, actually, Craig um mentioned that he's in a peer group, and I think his, it's like I I can only imagine what it must be like going in. It's just like you think you're like the the big shot, and then it's like someone comes in, they they're running a completely different business and they're, you know, equally or whatever successful. And hearing the the that kind of honest conversation is something that I um, you know, kind of have an appetite for, and I would love to hear uh more about. Maybe I'll look into seeing if there's anything around around my area for that kind of thing, because I find that it would be very I think it would fill my fill my cup in a different way, which I would I think I would appreciate. That's very cool.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yeah, it's and then and once again, I would encourage anyone out there, if you're looking for um for ways to grow your your personal self or your business, um, get into it, get into some type of network mentoring group. Um, and and once again, um I say it's a it's a true mentoring group for me because um, you know, I've got 11 other brothers and sisters that every month we're we're truly passionate about helping each other be successful or be more successful. And uh, and we know that we have a lot of people that are counting on us. You know, I have you know, um so many retailers and so many vendors that are part of our organization that are that are relying on, you know, me and and IJO to stay strong and to give them the resources they need. Um, not only that, you know, I've got employees that I have to, you know, yeah keep them make sure that they're they're getting what they need. So it's it's a big undertaking, but it's also very rewarding at the top for sure.

How To Join IJO And Closing

SPEAKER_01 48:23

That is really uh quite encouraging to hear, actually, because uh sometimes I feel like there's like a lot of discussion around, oh, it's it's lonely at the top and it's not fun at the top, and it's like you miss the days of just being an individual contributor. But to hear that you have that support group that makes it a little bit more manageable and helps you keep that learner's mindset, um, even you know, leading something with with hundreds of of retailers involved, uh, that's very encouraging to hear and and and makes me kind of understand your story a little bit more. That's great to hear, Steven. Um, I think maybe we'll kind of wrap it up right there. If people were interested in learning a little bit more about IJO uh and potentially being a member, where would they go? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

So you can go to our website, ijo.com, um, play around there. We've got some lots of uh great information there. Um you can personally reach out to um our director of um membership, Penny Palmer, and her email is pennypen at ijo.com. Um and once again, we're uh we are an organization always looking for new, fresh members. Um we are territory protected, so you know we do have some criteria that would need to be met. But please, if you're interested in IJO, reach out, uh, reach out to Penny. We'll give you all the information and see if uh you're a candidate for membership.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yeah. And if you do reach out, maybe let them know that in the loop sent you. Makes us look good. Uh, Steven, I think we'll leave it right there. I really appreciate your time and I hope to have you back in in another year and we can uh discuss what year two has been like and uh what you've learned from there. But in the meantime, good luck with IJL. I'll be rooting for you guys every time.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

So thank you so much, Michael, for having me. And I look forward to seeing you in a few weeks at the uh Bunchmart Workshop.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

I appreciate that. Yeah, it'll be really fun. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll be back next week, Tuesday, with another episode. Cheers. Bye. All right, everybody. That's the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening. My guest this week was Steven Barnes. He's the president and owner of IJL. This episode is brought to you by Punchmark and produced and hosted by me, Michael Burbo. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cochran. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and leave us feedback on punchmark.com slash loop. That's L-O-U-P-E. Thanks, and we'll be back next week, Tuesday, with another episode. Cheers. Bye!