317: How Does Your Classroom Environment Shape Young Minds? With Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez

In this episode of Childcare Conversations with Kate and Carrie, you’ll hear a down-to-earth chat with a professor from Texas Woman’s University about how classroom environments shape little ones’ learning and behavior.  They swap stories and practical tips—think calming colors, less clutter, and spaces that match your program’s philosophy (Montessori, Reggio, etc.). 
You’ll pick up resourceful ideas for making big improvements on a budget, why listening to kids’ preferences matters, and how a thoughtful setup helps both children and teachers thrive.

Learn more about Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez

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Transcript

Carrie Casey (00:05)
computer.

Okay. So today we have an expert on environments on the podcast. So if you've got classrooms that are not functioning the way they should, and you've got a lot of rough housing and a lot of ⁓ strife between kids, it's about your environment and how you have it set up. So get ready to take some notes.

Kate Woodward Young (00:29)
Absolutely. So go get those paper and pencil and we're going to start and have Zolotta introduce herself, us a little bit about she is a professor at Texas Women's University. And yes, we do have a lot of Texas folks. So if you are not from Texas and you would like to be on our podcast, go to childcareconversations.com and fill out the share your story form. We would love to have you. And with that,

Tell us a little bit how you ended up in the field and then we will dive into what we know is yours.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (01:01)
Sure. Well, good morning, everyone. Thank you all so much for tuning in and listening wherever you are in whatever time zone. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. ⁓ I actually fell in love with working with young children when I was 16 years old. ⁓ I started out at the Jewish Community Center, which was near my home, and I worked with two and one year olds and really just toddler time.

pretty much where they alw ⁓

Kate Woodward Young (01:31)
I like that. I'm gonna think about always the hazing process because I am not the top.

Carrie Casey (01:35)
Thanks.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (01:36)
Exactly.

So ⁓ I loved working with young children and I did move up to the threes room and I figure out that was my age range where I really shined and thrived. I loved children asking questions and being curious, but I was also really spoiled at the Jewish Community Center. It's a true regio program and their environments are amazing, immaculate and fabulous. So as I went on through school, I got my psychology degree at SMU, Southern Methodist University, and I went and got my

a master's degree in child development at Texas Women's University and I became a preschool director at 25. And I walked into my first preschool and I thought to myself, ⁓ Dorothy, you're not in Kansas anymore because I truly believe that all preschools were high quality in terms of environment, in terms of curriculum planning. I believed everyone had NAACI ratios because I was in a NAACI accredited program. And so it was a really big wake up call for me. All right.

Kate Woodward Young (02:30)
Let's talk about that. So when we talk about environment, how do you define environment?

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (02:36)
I define the environment as built environment, which are the physical things in the environment. So the furniture, the materials, the books, all the things that children should be able to easily access and reach.

Kate Woodward Young (02:46)
colors like we've heard and we've seen we've been in enough programs in the last 30 years that you sometimes see the all the primary colors and all of the I'm going to call it cutesy characters from different shows and then you walk into other programs and it's all earth tones and soothing and is there a writer wrong how does that work into even educational philosophy.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (03:09)
Sure. I'm so glad you asked this question. just did a presentation on the importance of color at NAAC. So here's the thing. In the 80s, you had big fluffy hair, right? And you had all of those. And in Texas, we all have fluffy hair. So let's just go with that. And you had those loud color outfits. And that was the look of the time. But as we know better and we do research and fashion changes and trends change, we should also be changing. So you wouldn't necessarily wear an 80s outfit today in 2025, right?

unless you're going to a costume party. Right? Right. so as we know more about classrooms, as we learn more about color, which colors are calming? What should we do? The loud colors that we have on the walls and on the carpet and in the environment, although I think teachers truly intended to invite children to play and to make it fun for children, they're actually really overstimulating for children who have special needs, children who have been through trauma.

And so we moved away from that. have earthy tones. see a lot of the white furniture, the neutral color furniture. And then you see a lot of like the green walls, the siege, the light blues. The reason is because we want the environment to be common for children. Now, how do you do color right? That was a great question because I truly believe that in those neutral shelves and on the neutral table and with that calm one color carpet.

What you can do is you can have the material be colorful and engaging and speak to the children. So just think about walking into a classroom. If all of the pieces are calming and blend in, like the furniture, the walls, the ceilings, what's on the wall needs to be intentional and it's not overwhelming. And you notice that amazingly bright orange piece of material on the shelf, the child will immediately go to it. So the materials can be colorful and engaging.

but the furniture should be soothing and calming. And so that's where we are right now.

Kate Woodward Young (05:01)
So, I know that you and I have had this discussion and we've included occupational therapists in these conversations. How, if you were a teacher or even a director and your director's going, but everything in my building is primary color. How do they make the change? Where do they make the change? How can they start in a way that doesn't freak out an owner's budget?

Carrie Casey (05:23)
I mean, so the first classroom I was the boss of, so not the first classroom I worked in, but the first classroom I was the boss of was Pepto Bismol Pink. And so I asked the director if it was okay if I painted it over the weekend and she's like, as long as your other teacher in the room is fine with it, sure.

You can do it on the weekend. I don't have any budget for paint and I don't have any budget to pay you overtime, but you can do what you want to do. ⁓ and so I went to the oops shelf at home depot or Lowe's or whatever hardware store and I got paint that was mixed incorrectly, that was in a calmer color than Pepto Bismol pink. And so I painted that room on a Friday night and Saturday morning so that

Most of the aroma was gone by Monday morning. Not all of it. I had a whole thing from my other teachers that were like, what are you doing? ⁓ But that is one of those things that is a very easy first step is paint the walls. Don't go with millennial grayish. ⁓ You still want it to have some warmth in it, but you can do that. And then another really simple thing, if you have those.

circa 1990s tables that are that bright blue. can get large rolls of contact paper and put a ⁓ less stark color of contact paper on it. Yes, you will have to replace it a couple of times, but it is significantly cheaper than spending another $200 on a new table. same thing if your bookshelves.

for whatever reason are neon pink or something like that, you can paint it. And the hardest thing I think is to get teachers to let go of the concept of a circle time rug that has 52 colors and every letter, every number and every shape.

Kate Woodward Young (07:31)
I'm not freaking

out the owners. Everything else. you mentioned ⁓ your first program was a regio program. And one of the things that we are always kind of talking to people about is, do you know your educational philosophy and how does that work into your marketing and how does marketing work into your actual facility? So if you are ⁓ a Nana and Papa's, you know,

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (07:37)
set of times.

Kate Woodward Young (08:01)
program and people are thinking, homie, know, kind of like, you know, the grandparents running the program, that's going to be very different than if you show up at a Montessori program. How does environment work in those education

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (08:18)
I'm so glad you asked this question. get this question all the time. Not all ⁓ tips and tricks and things that you need to know fit all programs. If you're in an in-home preschool and they're in someone's home, you want it to be cozy and inviting, but you also want it to be organized and accessible to children and you want it to be educational too, right? There's a balance that you can strike. We're not going to come in and change someone's entire home. I actually worked and I've, as a consultant, I do still, I have a

business called Design to Succeed. And I went and worked with an in-home preschool owner who, because we only worked with the things she had, we organized the environment, we set areas up where children could easily ⁓ pick up what they need, play with it, and clean it up. And we took about 12 hours in one day and transformed her space. It actually increased her program by three students. She only had four at the time and then she was up to seven and her goal was eight. And that increase of three was due to the

incredibly organized, intentional, amazing environment that she already had, but she just really needed another set of eyes to come in. Think about when you have a home, same thing.

Kate Woodward Young (09:25)
because some people listening might get, it's three kids, but for the size of her program, listening, hopefully you'd rather that that was a 75 % increase. So imagine what would happen in your program if you changed some classrooms and added 75 % more students.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (09:41)
Correct and that's always the goal for owners and directors is to have the you know the Licensing allowance of how many children they can have but it really truly starts with the environment and so those changes might might seem expensive or cumbersome or take a long time But if you have a plan in place, it doesn't have to happen overnight You could have a year plan and you could say okay We're gonna transform the infant room and that's what we're focusing on right now and then the top Yes

Kate Woodward Young (10:05)
you have either the biggest behavior or

I don't know maybe the most openings and

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (10:11)
Absolutely. Exactly. The place where you want to grow, you should start there or the place where there's constantly behavioral issues. Like a lot of that is linked to the environment. So I think it can be overwhelming, but you should break it up and make it a year plan and a strategic plan and slowly do things. And those small changes, I've been to centers where they said, this is where we're starting. But in a year we want to look like this and we want to, you know, really follow the regio or Montessori or

whether you have a curriculum or an approach, they really want to reflect that in their environment so that when parents come, not only are you telling them about your program, but they're seeing it live in action because the rooms reflect it and the children are happy and they're engaged and they have those amazing things to explore. ⁓ The other thing someone asked me, well, how often should I rotate my toys? Well, that depends on the children's interest. So there isn't a formula. And unfortunately,

People want a formula. They want to know, me exactly. I mean, I know in my home, I rotate my daughter's toys every three months. That's about the shelf life of how she's interested in some things, but I don't take all the things away. I leave like her magnet tiles that she likes to play with or her unicorns that she's into. And I change out the other things that she's outgrown. Like if she knows her numbers and colors now, then I bring in.

you know, some more engaging material that I might've purchased at Lakeshore or Kaplan. I mean, I got to own where I purchased my stuff, right? You know what mean? So I think that you don't have to throw it all out. You keep the things that children love, but you rotate in things that are exciting and you so they can go, wait, I didn't see that. And children notice those changes. When I did my research listening to children's voices regarding classroom environment, I asked children, where do you like to play? And where do you not like to play? Really simple questions that anyone can do. A teacher can do, a preschool director can do. And you know what the children said?

I like to play in the blocks or I like to play in dramatic player and then say, I don't like to play in the science. And that was the most shocking to me. And the reason is, is because they had the same tired magnifying glass and those, you know, plastic bugs and it never changed. And so as soon as I gave that feedback to the teachers, I said, here's the feedback from the children. Let's listen to our primary customer, the child. And I, soon as I gave it to them and they modified those environments, children immediately noticed it. Three, four and five year olds notice those changes.

So if we want to keep them engaged and we want them to interact with each other and the room and the materials, then it is on us to make those modifications when they're no longer interested in what we are presenting.

Kate Woodward Young (12:32)
Absolutely. So hopefully if you're listening as a director or owner, you're sharing this episode with the teachers in your classroom because there are some great nuggets here. But Carrie, I'm going to ask you a question specifically from a parent standpoint. So what do parents see when they see the environment? So if you're talking about making those changes, you're a parent coming into a program. What you notice and why does it matter?

Carrie Casey (12:55)
So the first thing is if you're changing anything that is in the welcoming area in the classroom Tell the parents ahead of time so that they don't come in and they feel like everything is different and wrong Because they had a way that they were signing their kids in in the morning and they were putting their kids stuff away or if you had been a Everybody drops off in the lobby and now they're going to the classroom or vice versa tell people ahead of time that that's coming but what parents

Notice some of it's at the conscious level and some is at the subconscious level is Does the name of the program? Match what I am seeing when I walk in the building. So if the program is called Yeah, ABC Montessori ABC Montessori and they walk into the building and there is plastic everywhere and there is no writing materials easily available Then they're like, why is this ABC Montessori?

It's not wooden. I don't see the pink tower. I don't see the brown stairs. And there's no writing materials out. If it was ABC regio and they didn't see writing materials, they'd have that same issue. if your program is called ABC whatever, they should walk in and see that kids in every classroom have access to mark making tools. They're not thinking of that consciously. They just kind of go, I don't know. I had a weird feeling about that second program.

And here's the thing, most parents aren't touring five and six programs the way they were even two or three years ago. They are looking at the online presence of those schools. And so if your website is full of stock photos that were taken at who knows where, and it doesn't reflect your community, so the people don't look like the people in your community, and the building doesn't look like your building, then...

They immediately if they do pick yours off of what they looked off of social media and your website and they walk in and it doesn't match They're not enrolling I you have a match it has

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (14:59)
Yeah, so.

It has to match. Well, I am actually writing a textbook to address this exact problem matching the theory and the curriculum. So if you follow Reggio, if you follow Montessori, Reggio is Malaguzino. Maria Montessori actually didn't trademark her name. So that's why we see some of these what I call fake stories, which are Montessori that pretend to be Montessori, but they're not. And part of it is because they just don't know better. They don't know what the Montessori method is or how the environment should look or what the teacher should be doing. And the teachers are guides. So they don't have the knowledge base.

to really implement it, right?

Carrie Casey (15:34)
And with Montessori, you've also got early Montessori or late Montessori. I'm an early Montessori. I like the early part of her writing. I do not like the 65 year old Montessori.

Kate Woodward Young (15:45)
have

the Montessori programs that serve children on a quality improvement program. And a lot of those states don't know how to give those star ratings to Montessori programs, or they get grants of curriculum. So they feel like they have to use them because they were given them, even though they don't match. So I have been in really good Montessori programs. And when they started accepting

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (15:58)
Monastery.

Kate Woodward Young (16:15)
additional diversification of their student population and payment method that the more they were taking government funds and government grants, they thought that they were expected to use all of that. All of a sudden.

Carrie Casey (16:29)
It changes the built environment. we gave the tease at the beginning, and I don't think we've hit it. So I want to circle back to what are some of the things that people are doing in their built environment that are creating the behavior problems in the classroom? What are some of those big ticket? Not big ticket as far as money, but big ticket as far as change and being huge.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (16:53)
They have too many things out. Children get overwhelmed. There's research and studies that show that children of certain age can only handle nine items on the shelf and also groupings that make sense. Like one basket has balls, one has blocks, right?

Kate Woodward Young (17:07)
This is my life. What do you mean children?

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (17:11)
Exactly. And so I think that, you know, we need to look at the research and that's what I do. Part of my job is to research built environments and to, you know, give the best and the latest research and science to directors, owners and teachers. And so we're overwhelming children with too much stuff. It's being done in their homes. It's being done at their schools. So it all matches. They come in and they're like, I don't even know where to look. I don't even know where to begin. And if I'm playing with something, I don't know how to put it back. So a lot of us.

setting up the intentional environment is to set it up to where kids can clean up. And a question I often get is how early can children clean up? And my rule is as soon as they can sit up, because when your child can sit up, you can take their hand over hand and take, this ball goes in this basket and we put it back on the shelf. And you this goes here. And so you start that early at six months old. And so then it pays dividends when they're two and three. And that's when I have play dates and people over there like, do your children, you have all these amazing materials and everything is organized. How do they just like play with one or two things or three and then nowhere to put it back?

because I simplified the process and I do the same in my preschool classroom. I simplified the process. If they can't clean up, then that means there's an error in how I set it up. They should be able to take materials out, use them and clean them up themselves.

Carrie Casey (18:20)
Okay, we have to go back to episode. I think that if the kids in the classroom cannot clean up, then that is an error on the way you have set the room up. Sit with that. Have your teachers sit with that. Have Zlata come and do a Zoom webinar for your staff about this concept. Like that concept alone.

Kate Woodward Young (18:22)
That's a whole separate.

Carrie Casey (18:46)
would reduce the amount of overwhelm that your teachers are having, reduce your staff turnover, improve their job satisfaction, and save you money because you don't have to have 57 tubs of magnetop.

Kate Woodward Young (19:00)
But even take this a step further because so many people get into this industry because they have children themselves. Imagine doing this at home with all of your children under the age of 18. And a lot of them would probably carry this into their adult life. If all of a sudden they're trained, that means that your home life is a lot more organized. You aren't running into the house every day going, pick up all your stuff. Or the, have too much stuff. Cause I mean, like we all hear that because they've got

grandparents and then we buy them stuff and then there's that you know collection of whatever they have.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (19:36)
Things they've outgrown that are out. I will tell you, like, I do the seasonal cleaning because my children's birthdays fall in August and September and beginning of school. So they get a ton of things then. Then Christmas comes around, they get a ton of things then. Then March comes and we do spring cleaning. Then we're getting ready for summer. So it's always, I know when I clean up, it's always like September, December, March, May. And I have those because I want to see the things that I've outgrown. They've loved, they no longer use. And so teaching my children, I have 11 and a three-year-old.

to actually audit and be intentional in what they have in their space and in their room reduces the anxiety that they feel. And you know, my house isn't immaculate and clean all day, but we have a rule at the end of the night that you put all your stuff away. Well, they need a system that works where they can put those things away. Same in the classroom. If the children are there and engage in center time and they're doing all these wonderful things, sometimes, yeah, we need to leave that tower and we put a sticky on it and say, they're working on this. It's a progress. They'll finish it tomorrow. But then by the end of the week, by Friday, let's break it down and put it back.

so when we come back, we can enjoy those items again. So I absolutely do believe that we need to train ourselves and our children not to have a ton of things, but to have the right things and intentional things in our environment.

Carrie Casey (20:46)
And I think that the teachers can be doing the same thing with the kids and say, okay, it's going to be, we're going to reset the centers neck on Friday. After you leave, we're going to reset the centers. What do you need? What do you want to stay in the block center? Cause we're going to be changing out stuff in the block center. So what you guys as a class, and you can do this with toddlers. You can't do it in your infant room.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (21:12)
You can it three-show you by what they gravitate to. So when I went and did the same type of consulting in a Montessori school, in a Reggio school, in a typical school, and again, to your point, follow the curriculum. If you're a street, live the frog street. If you're creative, live it. If you use high-spoke, live the curriculum. If you say, I'm Reggio or Montessori, live it. So it starts with like, do you know your philosophy? Do you understand it? And what is a school that's following your philosophy or curriculum look like that's high quality? And then you emulate that, right? So that's why one size doesn't fit all.

But I would definitely say with children, zero to three will show you what they gravitate to. And it was this moment on the playground, because I was observing three to six year olds in a Montessori. I was asking the questions, where do you like to play? And where do you like to play? Where do you not like to play? And why? What would you like to see there? What's missing in your school that you have at home that you love to do? Asking those right questions of children. A tall lady comes in and she said, you know what? My children are not verbal, but they show me every day with

where they all go and gravitate to and what materials they pull out, what they really enjoy. And then those abandoned centers that you might have, like your science center, or maybe that writing center that you haven't freshened up or updated. ⁓ And they will tell you with what they're, even infants, they will crawl to the places that they love the most. So using children's data to inform our practice is at the heart of what we should be doing. And so they can tell us what they want and not want in their environment. And we also,

match our curriculum, our philosophy, and we don't need all this stuff. And teachers tend to hoard, I will just be honest about this, hoard things because there are times when the budget is low and they don't have things, but then your resource room can be organized and have the materials that you need and accessible to everyone. I know so many teachers when I go and flip a classroom, I open their drawers and there's all this paint.

and there's no paint in the resource room for other teachers to use. like, and so I asked like, why are you hoarding the paint? And they're like, well, there have been years when we weren't getting paint. So I think that there's that scarcity in because have who are at a center for five, 10, 15, 20 have seen times when there wasn't money. And they tend to hoard things, but having label resource spaces where you can go get things you need, papers, paint, play dough is incredibly important.

Kate Woodward Young (23:23)
All right, Carrie, what do we want to tell her?

Carrie Casey (23:26)
think we want to tell everybody that you need to get the resources that are in the show notes from this show. ⁓ The built environment is so important and it is one of our biggest out ways that we make once or you know once a year. For the school year you're making those those investments and doing it thoughtfully and.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (23:43)
year.

Carrie Casey (23:52)
I mean, this can just, it can turn your program around. so I really think use these resources guys, use these resources. We're going to try to make sure we keep tabs on these books she's writing. And when they come out, we will have her back on so that you have access to that information as well. So if you enjoyed this show, share it with someone else who needs to know, and we'll talk to you in a few days.

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (24:17)
Please do and I will provide a research article that I wrote on asking pre-k children where they like to play and not. The number one obstacle for teachers was finding the time to set up and clean up. They were doing it either before they clocked in or after they clocked in or on the weekend. so giving your teachers time to plan the curriculum or lessons and also plan for the environment is something that directors and owners can do that's gonna pay great dividends. So I'll share that. And the other article that I'm gonna share is ⁓ how to improve your program over a year.

⁓ And we start with the environment and I talk about them focusing on the lesson plan, focusing ⁓ on your curriculum, right? So sometimes it can be overwhelming when you want to improve your center or you want things to be better or you want to grow your enrollment. And I worked with two other Texas Rising Star mentors because we're in Texas and wrote up a plan, a year plan that you can actually have and have one initiative, one focus per month so that you can really focus on those items to improve your program and of course have

have your children and families and have your school be at the numbers that you're wanting it to be.

Carrie Casey (25:19)
Absolutely guys you need these resources go get them and we will talk to you in a couple of days

Zlata Stankovic-Ramirez (25:26)
Thank you guys for having me on. Bye.

Kate Woodward Young (25:28)
Bye.

Carrie Casey (25:30)
And then I somewhere have the stop button. There we go.