321: Navigating Childcare Differences: A Chat with Fiona Webb on Best Practices

In this episode, Carrie and Kate sit down with Fiona Webb, a UK childcare owner, for a warm, globe-trotting chat. They swap stories about Fiona’s journey from the army to early years education, compare UK and US childcare quirks, and dream up a world tour to explore international programs. 

The conversation is full of laughs, practical wisdom, and reminders that finding the right fit. Between families and programs, matters most. You’ll walk away inspired to keep learning, connecting, and maybe even planning your own childcare adventure!

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Transcript

Carrie Casey (00:05)
Well, today we have a guest from, as some people say, across the pond. ⁓ So Fiona Webb is a childcare owner from the UK who we met at one of the international conferences, the Child Care Business Growth Live Conference. And she came to Austin and so we got to hang out and go see a program here in Austin, Texas. And we just...

had such a great time. were like, ⁓ we've got to get her on the podcast. And

Kate Woodward Young (00:39)
Well, really

what we said was why didn't we record a podcast while she was here?

Mrs Fiona Webb (00:43)
Yes, yeah, yeah, that would have been...

Carrie Casey (00:44)
Well, yes, that would have maybe made more sense. Yes.

Kate Woodward Young (00:45)
mean, that was the first statement. We let her leave.

Carrie Casey (00:52)
Yep. And her son is here at UT. So that was part of her. She didn't just come to visit Kate and I.

Kate Woodward Young (00:59)
⁓ quit telling. We can make people think she came just to see us.

Mrs Fiona Webb (01:04)
He didn't want me there for the whole week. He was like, you need to go and do some work, go and do something else.

Carrie Casey (01:11)
So Fiona, tell us a little bit about how you came to be in early care and why you wanted to be an owner. And then we'll go from there.

Mrs Fiona Webb (01:19)
Yeah,

okay, so I did a business studies degree, finished school, did a business studies degree and then went to the army for 10 years. The best time ever in the army. I know. No, had a great time. Learned some amazing sort of leadership skills, things that have come through life with me, brilliant. But then I had my daughter and decided that I needed to find a different career.

Kate Woodward Young (01:32)
Okay, seems, no, those two statements don't go together. Army, best time ever.

Mrs Fiona Webb (01:49)
But at the same time, I went to look at some nurseries and some good, some not so good. And I looked around places and I thought, you know, I feel like I would like to do this. I feel like I can do this. I can do this better. ⁓ I got my mum with me who was a... So I got no background in childcare apart from I'd suddenly had a child or I'd got a child. But my mum was a healthcare professional. She was a health visitor. And she was like, we can do this. We can definitely do this. And so... ⁓

I left the army, we found a premises and we set up a nursery and my daughter is now 25. So that was 25 years ago. And then I've done different things along the way. So we sold that one, bought a small group of three, added a couple more to it, sold a couple of those. And I find myself now with three settings, quite close to each other. But along the way, I decided that I needed to...

I needed to understand the professional side. I couldn't just carry on doing the pay and the books and I needed to really understand. So I did an early years teaching degree and that sort of sparked my curiosity into what do other people do? know, does it, how are we, what does settings look like across the world, I guess, you know?

Carrie Casey (03:06)
Well, I mean...

Kate Woodward Young (03:07)
So other

than coming to the United States, have you been to other countries and seen how nurseries are set up or the settings in other countries? And if you haven't, which ones do you want to go to next?

Mrs Fiona Webb (03:18)
So I haven't, I was supposed to go and then COVID happened. So I was going to go to do, there's a sort of an Iceland thing. And I also wanted to go to Montessori, actual go and see some Montessori, do some training with them. I'm not, we're not a Montessori setting, but I really wanted to do that. And then COVID happened. So, but I've got quite a, quite a big, quite a good group of friends and other owners here. So if we ever have a meeting.

Kate Woodward Young (03:45)
So

when are we all going to Iceland? And then Italy? I think there's some trips here we've got planning.

Mrs Fiona Webb (03:48)
Well, why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

I can organise them for you, you organise them for me and we're off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

Carrie Casey (03:56)
I'm ready.

I also want to go to Finland, though, because I think their approach is also very interesting. And then one in, like, Eastern Africa, where they have the concept of Ubuntu. So the concept of, you know, we have to do everything together, it needs to serve the whole community. ⁓ I think

Mrs Fiona Webb (04:06)
Yeah.

Right.

Carrie Casey (04:25)
And then can and then we'll go to like ⁓ not Shanghai. What's the city state in Asia that speaks English? Let's go there. ⁓

Kate Woodward Young (04:39)
Yeah

Mrs Fiona Webb (04:39)
Yeah,

we could literally just do a world tour. Why not? No. Yeah.

Carrie Casey (04:42)
Yeah, Singapore, right? It's Singapore that also has

a very interesting early childhood ⁓ philosophy or take. And I guess if we're over there, we could also do Australia. Let's just...

Mrs Fiona Webb (04:52)
Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (04:53)
Okay, so I think we're...

Mrs Fiona Webb (04:55)
Yeah,

we've gone all that way, why not?

Carrie Casey (04:58)
Yeah, I mean, OK, it might be several trips. I don't think we can do it all in one, but I'm ready. Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (05:05)
Who's paying for this? Let's find a sponsor.

Mrs Fiona Webb (05:06)
Well, you guys are going to do the training along the way. We'd have to stop and you can do some, so you can do some training and then off we go and carry on. Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (05:16)
love that idea. think we need to find a sponsor. So we need an international somebody. So if you're listening, whoever you are, and

Mrs Fiona Webb (05:22)
Okay.

Kate Woodward Young (05:26)
you would like to sponsor the three of us on a world tour, just let us know. We're right there. So I could plant some organization names. Like, you know, there's this company in New Zealand. I think they could probably do it. you know, Martin and Cindy, if you're listening.

Mrs Fiona Webb (05:29)
Yeah. ⁓

Kate Woodward Young (05:44)
I'm not going to call you out by company, but by name. See, now we know who listens to the podcast.

Carrie Casey (05:48)
So that we could do

New Zealand instead of Australia. Okay. Well, I mean, both of those countries have amazing support, I think, compared to the American support for early childhood. I think both New Zealand and Australia do a better job of supporting early childhood.

Mrs Fiona Webb (05:52)
Yeah, we can. I'm Gina.

Kate Woodward Young (05:54)
Yeah.

Mrs Fiona Webb (06:03)
Okay.

Okay. And we're also as in that in this kind of industry, really welcoming our way, really welcoming to if, if, if somebody gives you know, somebody, an owner from the States or wherever called me and said, Can I come? Yeah, yeah, of course you can. Of course you can. Whereas I wonder if that would happen in every industry, if you'd be worried about who's coming to look around or I feel like we're very open and welcoming.

Carrie Casey (06:31)
in your former career of the army, people would be less welcoming. If you were like, Hi, I would like to walk around and see your training facilities in the New Zealand Army. don't know that they'd be quite as welcoming. And I don't even know if Singapore has an army.

Mrs Fiona Webb (06:40)
Yeah.

Yes, yes, I will. I will.

Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (06:52)
Okay, so what I'm hearing is Iceland, Finland.

Carrie Casey (06:57)
That's the first trip. Yeah, we'll just.

Mrs Fiona Webb (06:58)
And we can do UK. I mean, I can keep you busy for weeks in the UK.

Anyway, if you want to go, I can keep you busy here for weeks.

Kate Woodward Young (07:07)
you know if we're over there we'd have to at least make a side trip to some Scottish city anyway right Carrie so we have we have we have family from there so and I figured if we're over there we might as well go to Paris and I might as well squeeze in like I don't know Disneyland Paris

Mrs Fiona Webb (07:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Casey (07:14)
Yes.

Mrs Fiona Webb (07:18)
Okay.

Of course.

Carrie Casey (07:26)
you

Kate Woodward Young (07:27)
You

should have known that was coming, Carrie, so I don't know why you're laughing.

Mrs Fiona Webb (07:27)
Why not?

Carrie Casey (07:29)
Well, that's part of why we're going

to Singapore. I figured that would get you your Disney. That would get you your Disney.

Kate Woodward Young (07:33)
Well,

Mrs Fiona Webb (07:34)
Yeah!

Kate Woodward Young (07:34)
I'm

actually in my head going, how can we get to all of them?

Carrie Casey (07:37)
That's not necessary. Not necessary. Okay, let's get back on to like, what are some of the things that you have found are maybe significantly like you expected them to be more different between the US and the UK is childcare. I mean, we know that the vocabulary is a little different because we say centers and you say settings.

Mrs Fiona Webb (08:03)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I think we would say director for the person who owns the business, a director for you is the manager of the setting. Is that right? Yeah.

Carrie Casey (08:05)
It both starts with a suh, but other than that.

Yes.

Kate Woodward Young (08:18)
Exactly. So what do you call

the manager of the nursery? Manager. Okay.

Mrs Fiona Webb (08:21)
manager. man, the nursery

manager is the manager, the owner is the director, within reason, you know, but when you were talking about the director, that threw me a bit. yeah, but do know what was? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think nursery can be, I mean, we call it a nursery, a setting. Nursery can sound a bit old fashioned now, maybe, I don't know. I don't know, but it's

Carrie Casey (08:32)
⁓

Kate Woodward Young (08:33)
It's those little things, okay?

Mrs Fiona Webb (08:48)
it's maybe more common that we talk about your nursery rather than your... Yeah. do you know one thing that I found really nice was that it wasn't a lot different. Child care, if you do it well and it's done for the good of the child, is the same wherever you go, isn't it? Whatever the language, whatever, know, good child care looks the same.

wherever you are. so like they were really busy, weren't they, that day? And there was all kinds of stuff going on and there was somebody else coming. And every room we walked in was like really calm. And the practitioners were all really in get they looked up, they smiled, they said hello, but then they got back to the children. There was no, nobody was running around with a clipboard panicking about lunches, you know, or I don't know who's booked in and he isn't booked in and why are they here and there was none of that. There was just like

It was just sort of really good sound, sort of calm practice. that was really good to see, isn't it? That was amazing. I really enjoyed seeing that.

Carrie Casey (09:53)
Well, and I think that when you're not the one running a program, frequently, we don't see the chaos. When you're the one who is running the program, you see all the chaotic elements. Where if a parent is just dropping their children off or another educator is visiting, they're not going to notice the the look on your staff person's face that tells you that you need to go talk to them for five minutes.

Mrs Fiona Webb (10:04)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Casey (10:22)
right,

because you know that face and you know that that is a I have a problem with the luncheon. And so people aren't going to notice it. And so there may have been chaos that we just didn't recognize because we didn't know those faces. But it is I mean, I did pick a program that I know is very well run. I went to secondary school with the owner. And it

Mrs Fiona Webb (10:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Carrie Casey (10:49)
She had a whole other career as an actor and a dancer and then came back to Austin and showed up in one of my classes and I was like,

what are you doing here? I haven't seen you since we were on a dance squad together in, you know, the 10th grade. Well, I guess I'd seen her all through secondary school, but it was just very, ⁓ and so, and she's run it for almost as long as you have Fiona. I mean, it's, it's been a long time.

Mrs Fiona Webb (11:09)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right, Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (11:21)
But what's

interesting is all of us and the owner Carrie's talking about is we all found ourselves in this industry for the exact same reason and with a very similar path. Now, Carrie, you are not the norm. Not everybody knew at age three, this is what they wanted to do. But your timing of opening your programs was absolutely related to when all of a sudden you had children that needed care and you needed a place to put them and

Mrs Fiona Webb (11:32)
Yeah.

Carrie Casey (11:35)
No.

Yes, I'm a weirdo.

Mrs Fiona Webb (11:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie Casey (11:51)
Yep.

Kate Woodward Young (11:51)
I

think that that kind of resonates with even what you were saying in the beginning Fiona about, you know, that we're nice, like that we are open to sharing and we want to be there for other people. So.

Mrs Fiona Webb (12:04)
Yeah, yeah.

I, when I get other do networking or meetings with people in the UK, most when you talk to people, go, why did you end up doing this? Most people will say, I was looking for somewhere for my own child, or and I thought I can do this better. And I, I still do, you know, we've got our vision, we've got our values, we've got all this stuff. But my basic line is

if it's not good enough for my child, it's not good enough for somebody else's. my managers know that now and we will have that conversation sometimes we'll walk around and I'll say what do you think? That and she'll say no no no and so we it's just like it's that's the thing is I think that we all think that we we only want what is good enough for our or better for our own child. I don't know if you agree with that but yeah.

Carrie Casey (12:54)
Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that finding ways to make the program reflect your values is important because there are other parents out there who have the same values you do and you're going to have a better time running your school if the people who are paying you value the same things you do. I love the BBC for

Mrs Fiona Webb (13:08)
Yeah.

Carrie Casey (13:20)
show where they put kids in a setting and film them. ⁓ And you get to hear the early childhood conversations that people who aren't educators don't get to hear those conversations of four year olds negotiating. love it. ⁓ But even in those where it's entirely manufactured, they have different kind of

Mrs Fiona Webb (13:24)
Bye.

Yeah.

Carrie Casey (13:47)
educational philosophies reflected in different seasons. There's one that was all very much a nature based program and the kids, the playground was had a mud kitchen ⁓ and lots of like, let's go find sticks and things. And then there was another one that was everything was very manufactured. ⁓ And so, you know, the kids

had more of a polished experience and stuff like that. So I think putting your values into your program is a really important part of it.

Mrs Fiona Webb (14:23)
Yeah and that comes across then in a way when you do your visits or your tours and I think you have to have the confidence to think if we're not the right fit we're not the right nursery for them. It's not sort of just grabbing parents grab grab grab because it doesn't work does it? You've got to be confident to say this is us go and look at other places as well I mean obviously we want the business but look and check that we are the right fit because your child is

quite possibly gonna spend more time with us than it is with you if it's in a full-time place. So yeah, I think you're right.

Kate Woodward Young (14:59)
Well, and it's important to understand. mean, I think you said, like, I'm hoping people heard that nugget, which is you want people who want to be there who see you as a good fit. And like Carrie said, and we've all had the families who aren't the right fit or the kid. Sometimes the family's great, but that one kid, and they may have had an older sibling or a younger sibling that perfect. And then you've got that one that like doesn't really work in that environment.

Mrs Fiona Webb (15:09)
Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (15:27)
I know as a parent of four kids, not all of my kids would have ever done well at the exact same program. And I was really fortunate enough that I knew enough people and had my own experience that I was able to do the drive around, right? And let the kids go to the programs that really do work for them. But there's a lot of families that are like, no, I want to make it easy. And so I'm to send all of my kids here and

Mrs Fiona Webb (15:35)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (15:56)
you know, inevitably, ⁓ especially if you've got more than two, you're going to have one that probably doesn't fit in that square, right? So you're trying to put that round peg in that square and it's not working. And so if you're listening and you're an owner or a director, right? If you're the one who makes, you know, who is ⁓ owning the program has that risk, ⁓ you know, help your managers, your directors understand.

Mrs Fiona Webb (16:08)
Yeah, for sure.

Kate Woodward Young (16:24)
how to help families understand the importance of that right fit. it might mean they gotta find more than one program.

Mrs Fiona Webb (16:34)
And give the manager the confidence because if you're giving them targets and you're saying your occupancy has got to get from this to this to this, they've got to have the confidence to say, I don't think I don't, you know, maybe this isn't right for you. not a right for, know, that you've got to allow your staff to be able to have the freedom to do that as well. Otherwise it becomes difficult for them, doesn't it? So.

Carrie Casey (16:34)
I mean, and.

Kate Woodward Young (16:37)
Absolutely.

Carrie Casey (16:58)
Yeah, I mean,

if you're again, that nature based program, you know, where the kids are, you know, playing in a mud kitchen. And one of the first questions a parent asks when they're walking through is what percentage of your four year olds can write, then you're probably like, maybe not the right match. Because if they're valuing being able to write their name by four, that may or may not happen in the mud kitchen.

Mrs Fiona Webb (17:14)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (17:28)
Or is my kid gonna get dirty?

Mrs Fiona Webb (17:31)
Do they have to go outside? Yes. ⁓

Carrie Casey (17:34)
good

Lord. The questions of does my child have to go outside and does my child have to take a rest time? Yeah, the state says they have to. You have to move to another state if you want your kid to be able to stay inside and awake. They can't be in the state of Texas.

Mrs Fiona Webb (17:41)
Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Bye.

Kate Woodward Young (17:45)
No, but I want you to keep them awake!

Mrs Fiona Webb (17:51)
Yeah.

Kate Woodward Young (17:55)
You need a nanny. That's what that

is. You need a nanny. You need to let somebody else be responsible for keeping that child awake, not us. So because that, that, that impacts, that's not just a single kid impact, right? That's not a single kid, single family. That's an entire program, a classroom, an entire setting. It's a teacher that may not stay. No.

Carrie Casey (18:18)
.

Kate Woodward Young (18:20)
If I

was that teacher, I would not stay. I would have been out of there if I was told I had to keep a preschooler who's exhausted awake. I mean, it's bad enough as a parent when your child won't go take that nap and you have to deal with the aftermath. can't imagine doing that as a classroom teacher. So Fiona, as we kind of wrap up this conversation.

If there was one thing that you would want to share with ⁓ owners, directors, managers, every other, all those people, regardless of where in the world they are, what would you want them to know about either seeing other programs or even like you said, finding your, what makes you different and what makes your program the right fit for somebody?

Carrie Casey (18:56)
of those people.

Thank you.

Mrs Fiona Webb (19:15)
Do you know, I think that it is this constantly being willing to reflect and looking at what you do and how you can do it better. So hence the reason, you know, I thought I want to see another set. I want to see, I'm here, I'd like to see, because there might be things I can do. There's always something you can do better or that you can look at and go, oh, I get confidence in what I'm doing is good.

You know, so there were a few bits and bobs that I've come back and since we've started to do and that's that's being able to reflect on your own practice. Because if you don't. You go backwards, don't you? You've got to go forwards and so I just think that being willing to do training to go on conferences to read things to listen is just as important as sitting and looking at your spreadsheets or your. I don't know your plans and things like that.

That has really helped me, I think. Yeah. And I like to chat, so chatting to you guys was great. But it's good. You need to be sociable, don't you? You need to hear other people's opinions.

Carrie Casey (20:09)
You

Absolutely, and I think that every program I go to, I see something that makes me think in a different way. ⁓ Programs that have high ratios, so a lot of kids per teacher, I see a lot of really good classroom management because to keep their sanity, they have to be really good at classroom management. And when I see a program that specializes in specific ages or

Mrs Fiona Webb (20:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie Casey (20:44)
you know, is a Waldorf school or something like that. Like, I take something every single time. And I think that that is, I think not enough managers, not enough owners do that. Take the time to go look at other people's businesses with open eyes and an open heart, looking for what they can bring positively into their program.

Mrs Fiona Webb (20:57)
Yeah.

Yeah, lift in yourself.

Yeah, for sure, isn't it? It's lifting yourself out of... You could so easily just spend every day in the office. It's taking that time and it's worth it. Well, I think at the end of the day, it's worth it. It all adds value to what you do, doesn't it?

Carrie Casey (21:14)
Yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so I think we should wrap up by saying, ⁓ if you know of a sponsor to help with the international childcare trip, or if you want to join us, I have no idea what we would price any of that. I think this needs to be on our like vision board for the next five years is one of these. ⁓ And

Mrs Fiona Webb (21:33)
Yeah.

I show them. Yeah.

Carrie Casey (21:47)
Make sure that you are subscribed to our newsletter and go into your podcast player of choice and leave us a review. You can do that anywhere. If you're going to tell us something nice about Fiona, we'll make sure she gets the information. We will talk to you in a few days. Bye, guys.