340: How Is Whitney McCrory Fighting Oklahoma’s Childcare Crisis?

In this episode of Childcare Conversations, you'll meet Whitney McCrory, a true childcare legacy carrier from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Her mom launched the business back in 1982, and Whitney took the reins in 2018, running three nationally accredited five-star centers. She gets real about surviving COVID, navigating brutal state budget cuts, and fighting for quality care in a heavily regulated environment. 

Plus, she shares some genuinely memorable stories along the way. Her biggest staff retention secret? Simply showing up. Learn more about her journey in this episode 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Childcare Conversations with Kate and Carrie.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Working in childcare means that you are building a legacy every day because what we do impacts how hundreds of children are going to be tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps on a petty paste. Wait, no, we're not doing Shakespeare. Anyway, somebody who really lives this whole legacy is Whitney McCroy from Oklahoma, where she's not just building the legacy, she is building on the legacy that her mother built. Um, and she is helping, she's running several centers, and she is being an advocate of voice for the provider in Oklahoma. And welcome, Whitney. Um, I tell your whole story. So I want you to tell your story, the part you want people to know right now. Um how did you when did your mom start? How old were you? What happened? Tell us a little bit about that journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Okay, so my mom started in 1982. So we call her, she's the OG of childcare. Uh especially, you know, in Oklahoma. So um that was before I was born. I was born in 1987. I don't know if I want to say that on a podcast, but uh already did.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

And just so you know, if it makes you feel any better, that's when I graduated from high school. So let's just we'll go there.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I'm telling you, I'm getting more and more self-conscious. My son will be like, my mom is 38. And I'm like, shh, don't tell people that. But no, my mom started in in 1982. I have two older brothers, and she needed somewhere for my brothers to be. She was working at the Bank of Oklahoma, she wasn't in childcare, and she was looking for care for her two rowdy boys, and she realized that there wasn't anything in Oklahoma, nothing that met her standard. So she decided to start her own. She left the bank, she bought what used to be a little tiny church, and she opened up. Um, that was in 1982. I was born in '87, so things were obviously going well. At that point, she had acquired a second location. And when I was probably six, um, she started on her third location um out in Tulsa. So she initially started in Sand Springs. And then by the early 2000s, she had a total of six. Uh six is a lot. It is. Six is a lot. So I was born into the industry, and I've been in it since I was just a few days old. She even took me to the office then. So I I know the ins and outs. And um, in 2009, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and um, she's now in remission, so that everything went well. Um, she went through a few rounds of chemo and radiation, and um, she came out on the other side. So she decided that six was a lot, she wanted to retire. Um, she had talked about selling, and I like I said, I knew that one day this was all I'm gonna have left of my mom is, you know, what she's doing here with all of these, with all these families, with the staff, everything. So um my husband and I made a plan to we went to security bank, we secured an SBA loan and we made the offer and we purchased three of the six, um, and they are still in operation today. We were able to pour into our programs. We totally rebranded, um, we changed the name, and now we have like the childhood education centers. We have three nationally accredited five-star programs in the Tulsa area. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Well, I think that's a great, great place of the story. You missed one little bit, and I'm just gonna maybe it's because you didn't want to share it. But I wanted to stress that it wasn't just you who decided to help your mom retire. One of your brothers also at the time now went a different path, but at the time also made an investment in two of the programs, three of the programs, one of the programs?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Two. Um, he purchased two of them. And unfortunately, this is an industry that you really have to know what you're doing, and he had not spent as much time. So he wasn't as uh successful in doing what I'm still doing today. And then she still has one building that she leases out to a woman outside of our family. Um, it's a totally separate program. None of us have ever even met the owner of that program.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Okay, so you bought the programs when?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

The fall of 2018. So about eight years ago.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

So you lived through the the great purge of 2020 to 2023.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

We did. So COVID happened not long after, and that first year of ownership, you know, I was on my own. My mom had an army of people that she had working for her. She had, you know, somebody to do food programming, somebody to handle curriculum. I don't. It's just me and my husband. We wear a lot of hats. And that first year was baptism by fire. I mean, we had um an OIG audit where they were auditing our attendance records for payments. We had um licensing visits because you're on a permit. So we had um a six-month permit, and we had to, before we could officially become licensed, we had to make it through that. Yep. Um, we had accreditation because the programs were already accredited, and to maintain that, we had to go through our own. So it was just baptism by fire, and then boom, COVID happened. And that time was really uncertain. We we didn't know, you know, were we going to be able to survive this? We were I every day I was having to go hunt for supplies just to stay open. And, you know, the the state came through, they were able to to give us additional funding. Um, there were grants available, and that is really what made us able to pour into our programs. So we were able to completely revamp them, and they are just we're immensely proud of them.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Well, I think it's really exciting just to say that you have A, three locations, B, three accredited locations, and you're part of your state's quality improvement program. But really the part that is by far for those who don't already know you, and we will make sure to have your links in the chat, is your champion level advocacy for the state of Oklahoma, and not just for you, but for how many private childcare, well, all child care centers are impacted. How many childcare centers are impacted in Oklahoma as a result of budget issues?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Oh, everybody. So in total, there's about 3,000 programs that includes centers and homes, that's privately owned, that's franchises. Um, so 3,000 programs and um Oklahoma is primarily um subsidy-based programming. Um, even some of the Primrose take subsidy in Oklahoma. So there's a huge need for subsidized care in Oklahoma. And it's our belief that all children deserve quality programming, whether they're able to privately out of pocket or whether that is subsidized childcare. So we have never limited how much subsidy is in our programs. And so whenever they started to make these cuts back in the fall of 2025, um we, I mean, it's just a dumpster fire here, to be honest. I really don't I don't know if I want to get into it that much, but we've always got to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

No, but I but I think there's some things that I, you know, I've read enough. So Whitney and I chatted a little bit about um my very short life in Oklahoma, but the fact that that life was still pretty impactful in early childcare. And that I read a lot of what has happened in Oklahoma, and I think the fact that I mean there were all kinds of budget issues. If you guys want to, just Google it, do your own AI search or something, and they will they will tell you everything that Whitney's been living through because the state's done some things that most of us would shake our heads at. And I think it actually started as far back as what 2024 when they first announced some of the changes they were gonna make. And so I mean your budgets have been impacted hugely. Um now you maintained your your five-star accreditation, and so that's helped you on some levels. But if I if I read right, one of the stories I read was about a hospital system that in the hospital system they provided child care as an employee benefit, is kind of how I read it. That they've closed their child care centers because of the subsidy and the budget issues that go into having a program. And so if something that is as stable as a hospital can't keep their child care center open because of the budget changes, I think that says an awful lot about the state of the state of the industry in Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It does, it does. And I I am familiar with the the hospital that you're talking about, and they are they are closing their program. They said that they're losing a million dollars on it. And like you said, if a if a hospital who has so many resources isn't able to fund that program, how are we supposed to be able to do that? Um, our hands are really tied when it comes to subsidy in Oklahoma. We are not allowed to charge what's called gap pay.

unknown 9:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Right. So the difference between your tuition and what the state reimburses.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

And that's the same in Texas. I know, like in Indiana, you can charge the difference, and in some other states you can.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, we actually had a franchise come in and the they were the the person, the fran franchisee. Franchisee, thank you. Um that's a whole world I'll never know. Um they came in and they um were about halfway through a two million dollar investment when they learned that they are not allowed to charge gap pay. So Oklahoma is is quite a bit different than than other states, and our regulation is one of the top in the state. I'm sorry, top in the nation. So our oversight regulation is is very, very heavy. Um, we have no less than three unannounced licensing visits a year, and that doesn't include if you're if you have a complaint, um, that doesn't include QRIS or quality um improvement um visits as well. You get two of those. So they're out a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Yeah, but you know, maybe they should put scale back that a little bit and give you back some of your money.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Um well, but the governor's that is not the governor's solution. Um, the governor's solution is to roll back ratios, not to roll back oversight and not to increase funding. Um, his solution is that we just need to have go back to the good old days when you could have six infants being cared for by one adult. Because it childcare worked just fine back then when we had six infants for one adult. That's his thought.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah. And they'll say, you know, we were fine, you know, just sitting at grandma and grandpa's house, and you know, but we know more now. We know more about brain development, about about all those early years. So it's more important than ever. We need to take the information that we know.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Right. But also in the days when you would be staying at grandma and grandpa's house, grandma had her children in her 20s, and mom and dad had their kids in their 20s. So grandma and grandpa were in their 40s and 50s. Today, if an awful lot of people had their first child in their 30s, and then their children had their first child in their late 30s. So now you're asking somebody who's in their 70s to watch these kids. And I'm sorry, a 70-year-old cannot keep up with the average toddler. The average 70-year-old can't keep up with the average toddler. There are some, you know, that can, but that whole perception of grandparents can do it. Yeah, when the grandparents were in their 40s, that made sense. Like if the grandparents are in their 60s and 70s, it doesn't make as much sense.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

But we also have to remember that those grandparents are still working because they also can't afford to not be working. So, you know, again, when the grandparents were in their 40s, grandma probably was still able to work, be at home. She didn't necessarily have to work. Now in their 70s, when they should be able to be retired, they can't afford to be. So that could be its own soapbox for today. I mean, maybe we should figure out how to segue into a different topic. Like we can talk about all those dumpster fires. But you know, Whitney, I think the fact that you have uh continued what you identified as your mother's legacy. Tell us a story or two or three about families that have been with y'all since since the 80s, because I'm sure you've got some of those. I'd love to hear some of those. And then um, I'm gonna let you give us some of your favorite tips for managing and maintaining staff. Oh my gosh. Okay, that's a heavy topic.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Okay. Well, um, my mom has a lot of really good, she should have been the one on the podcast, are telling you. Um I told her, I said they, I think they want me to tell a couple of your stories, mom. Well, you can just tell us your stories because I'm sure you've got some doozies too. Oh no, I feel like hers are so much better because things were different then. They were they were different. Well, um, so one of my favorite stories uh is okay, I have three. I have three stories, and I'll try and get through all of them. Okay, so this one is is a little it's a little eerie. So she had a longtime employee who worked for her, and one morning the woman did not show up to work. And you know, in our line of work, that that's that's fairly common. We get some no-call, no shows, but this woman had been there a long time. And shortly after opening, the husband, the phone rang, the husband was calling, and he said, I'm sorry, Susan's not gonna be able to come in to work today. And they were like, Oh my gosh, is everything okay? And he said, No, she's dead. She called in dead.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Anyway, I love the way you told that story because I'm like going, it's not that she's never coming back to work, she's just not coming to work today. I like that's the part that crashed me in public day. So she's not coming, so she's coming tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

No, but she really she really did pass, and it was a huge loss for the center. But just the way her husband just took it upon himself to call in for her, she's not gonna be able to come in today or tomorrow. But so that was a pretty unique story. I've not had that happen to me. Um, not thank goodness. But um, let's see, another one, she she had an employee who was um, let's see, this was this was probably the in the 90s, and the center that she was operating at the time, um, she was trying to do, I think, either late night care or 24-hour care. She was kind of testing out a new model. Um, and she had the closer of the facility, um, who she trusted, you know, things seemed to be going all right, but the inventory of food stock was was kind of dwindling. You know, things were coming up missing. She thinks she ordered, you know, enough chicken nuggets and then enough cereal, but then they would be gone and she would have to replenish the stock. And she was like, that's just so, so weird. And she, you know, she couldn't ever prove anything, but she thought maybe that closing staff member was perhaps stealing the food. And so she didn't have any proof. She let time go by, and I guess one night the woman had a medical emergency. And the, I guess Impha ended up showing up, and the police showed up, and obviously my mother showed up, and she said there was a whole black trash bag of groceries with this woman. So I guess she was like carrying out, you know, like Santa, you know, a bag of of Cheerios and, you know, chicken nuggets or whatever it was. She was just grocery shopping. And I I think she had a seizure. And that's how it she ended up realizing, you know, all the pieces were there. That's what was happening. That's where the chicken nuggets were going. They were going home with this employee. And so that was I've not had that one happen either. Um I had one kind of like that. I had one kind of like.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

She got caught stealing because she had a medical emergency.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

No, just somebody who was walking off with um supplies and equipment. Um, and we didn't have proof because um I did the area where they were didn't have a camera. Um so this was back before before cameras. Back way back. Well, before cameras were very prevalent. There have been cameras since the 70s. We we, you know, they were just not good.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Oh no, they weren't and now you can see everything. Yeah, you can count this. Yeah, the hair story.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

It's no longer the nanny cam and the stuffed animal. Now it's like, hi, I am blatant a camera watching you. So yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

All right. So you said you have a third one. Okay, so the third story is probably I was probably 16 years old. And I believe that this was my mom's first time going through accreditation. And it was at one of the locations that I own today. And she she, I had been there to help her, you know. I was, I was helping in the office and helping in the classroom and, you know, trying to make this uh this happen. And I didn't understand exactly what was going on. I didn't understand how important this day was. And she went into the exit visit with the validator, and the feedback was tough. It was it was rough, and it was it wasn't a very good visit. And so she she got in her car, and back then she drove kind of uh an SUV. And my cousin was with us also, and so my mom is pretty frustrated. She's getting in the car, she slams the door. Cousin and I are buckling up, and she backs out, and the parking lot's really full, and she backs out and she hits her own sign in the parking lot. Her own sign. And I said, Mom, don't you want to get out and look? And she said, It's my sign, it's my car, we're going home. And she didn't even get out of the car. She left that sign and she went home. But you know what? She's still past accreditation. She did it. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Okay, so did you do you have pictures of the sign?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

I don't. I wish I did. It that would have been oh, three, two thousand four. But no, I wish I did. That would be that would be good to show, but I see it in my head. I could draw it if I could draw, right? Like so the sign just lay there. Her car had a dent. We found that when we got home, but she she did not, she didn't give any any cares in the world about it. She was like, I've had enough of this.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yep. I'm going home. I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

I don't want to be here anymore. They did not give me cookies today. This was not a good cookies and milk day.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

But she passed, and it turned out to be great. So we fixed the sign, we fixed the car, we got accredited. Woo!

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I I think that I think the car should have been should have had that dent for a while just as a as a way to remind her that you know maybe she should take a deep breath and things aren't always going to be as bad as they seem. So, on that, you've had some very interesting staffing stories. What is one secret that you think you bring to the table? What's your secret sauce for retaining staff? So all month we've been doing episodes on staff retention and staff appreciation. And I love to hear what our guests have to say.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Man, I don't, that's a tough question. Um, I I think that really what separates us from other programming is that we're really, we're very, very hands-on, um, both of us, my husband and myself. Um, so they see us pretty much daily. Um, the kids see us, the staff see us, we're we're human to them. Um, so they know that we are, we're there, we're there to support. And I I think really that is the secret, the secret sauce. I mean, I've got staff members that have been, they came with the building when I purchased it. They're still with me, um, even though my programming is, you know, exponentially different, and my my expectations are are much higher, but they've stayed on and they, you know, they believe in our programming and our cause, but it's also because, you know, we show them we're here, we're human, you need something, we're all in it together. Um, we're never gonna be in an office with the door closed where you can't find us.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

That's I think that is great, Whitney. Thank you so much for sharing. Carrie, do you want it or do you want me to do it?

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Why don't you go ahead? You're already talking.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

We are so glad that you all joined us. We will be back in a couple of days. And if you aren't sure that you are already getting our newsletter, make sure that you go to childcareconversations.com. And join our newsletter. It comes out twice a week, same day as our episodes drop, and we look forward to seeing you soon.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Thanks for tuning in. We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early childhood education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event, Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at kateandcary.com. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Child Care Conversations.