347: The Most Effective Mindset Shifts for Coaching Challenging Early Childhood Teams With Prerna Richards

In this episode of Childcare Conversations, the hosts sit down with the wonderful Prerna Richards to talk about something every childcare leader faces: coaching staff through tough mindsets and tricky behaviors. Think victim mentality, resistance to change, and team conflict. Prerna drops some real gems, including her "connection before correction" philosophy and the SBA strategy (Stop, Breathe, Anchor) for managing your own triggers. She also breaks down the difference between staff buy-in versus genuine belief, a game-changer! Plus, she shares details about her Behavior Coaching Academy. This one's worth a listen!

Learn more and book her coaching session! https://community.togetherwegrow.online/a/2148260553/qEq9xL3E

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Child Care Conversations, the podcast where early childhood leaders like you get real-world strategies, honest talk, and a whole lot of support. Whether you're running one center or many, we're here to help you lead with confidence and clarity. This episode is brought to you by Center IQ. If you've ever added a child to a classroom, adjusted staffing, or made a quick schedule change, and then spent the next two weeks fixing the ripple effects, you're not alone. Most leaders make decisions and then see what happens. CenterIQ's decision intelligence lets you see what happens before you decide. Start your free trial today at centeriq.io. Now, let's get into today's conversation. One we think you're really going to love.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Well, guys, we've got Prana Richards back on today. Every time we have Prana, you guys have lots of feedback. And so, you know, and she's our good friend. So we always want to have her on as often as we can make it work in our very busy schedules. Um and today we're going to talk a little bit about some issues you may have with your staff. You may have it right now. If you're not having it right now, you will probably have it with at least one of your staff at some point. And so a little bit of how to coach your staff through those types of situations. Um, and they're they're not fun. Um, we were commiserating a little bit before we hit the record button that this week all three of us have dealt with um people who were trying to support and coach who were having a little bit of the victim mentality. Oh, poor pitiful me. I didn't do anything wrong. Everything just happened to me. Or the other one we're gonna talk about, which is the well, that's not gonna work. I know what works. And, you know, we we don't need to why would we try something else? I've been doing this for three months, and I know what works and what doesn't work. Whether it's three months or three decades, that whole idea that they don't need to learn anything new because what they're working, what what they're doing is working, in their opinion.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

All right. I have to ask those. So Praina, I know that we think everybody should know your background, because if not, I feel like they should go listen to a previous episode. But give everybody the abbreviated version of your background and how this became such a passion project. I don't want to say project, but such a passion for you as far as being able to help your staff.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Okay, hello, hi everybody. So thank you for the invite to have this conversation. I love hanging out with you guys. Uh, you're such a fun group to do a podcast webinar for. You make it so lively and it's a real conversation, and I think that's what I love about this. So, a tiny intro uh intro for myself. If nobody has ever heard of me, that that, you know, it's nice to place people. Like, where are you coming from and who are you? Why should we listen to you? Uh I'm in the service business of helping others. And my service right now is to provide connection before correction. This is the this is the service that I'm providing right now. Connection before correction for no matter what role you're in. And what I'm realizing is that this is what we need in EC right now. Relationship, relationship, relationships, right? Like it's all hinging down on relationships because, well, the landscape around us, just the life we're living right now, right? Like it's nobody wants another strategy, nobody wants another something. Like it's all coming down to this. And um, I've had 40 years of influencing early childhood, and really my why is um the girl inside me who didn't get what she needed. And so I'm gonna advocate for other children and for other grown-ups to give the little humans what they need. And along the way, there are staff who don't get what they need, leaders who don't get what they need. Like this threat of not getting what I need lives with you because what happens early in life lasts a lifetime, right? So no kidding. No kidding.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Well, Prina, thank you so much for for just kind of framing our whole conversation because I think that that's just perfect. And I feel like I'm like, well, my job is done.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Um we can connect the things because when somebody has that whole um, I don't need to change, I don't need to learn something new. What is the psychological cord that we're pulling on there? What is going on? Why are they feeling so threatened by learning something new? I love it. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

So let's let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

It brings you up your heart up a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yeah. No, so so what do you think, Praina? What is what are you seeing? Why is this why does this happen? What what what could what?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So you you said it, right, Carrie? You said something really important. There's a fear of changing, right? Like it starts with an underlying sense of fear. And if we want to talk about fear, maybe we need to talk about mindsets, right? The growth mindset and the fixed mindset. And for somebody listening who's like, tell me more about these two words, uh, we b we can have a fixed mindset and we can have a growth mindset simultaneously for many things in our life. Right. Fixed mindset is a change, is a challenge. So anything that's gonna change, immediately my brain goes to this is hard, this is challenge, this is difficult. So my brain kind of puts a barrier, right? And you approach change as a challenge versus a growth mindset. A growth mindset can look at the same change and look at it as an opportunity versus a challenge. So, you know, a lot of the work that I do is all linked to the brain and the neuroscience. Because what I've realized is that it's easier to come from the brain perspective and then change what's happening outside if we can understand what's happening inside. Because the brain state inside determines the behavior outside. So we all have a fixed mindset and we all have growth mindset. And we can have a fixed mindset about certain things in life and growth mindset about certain things in life. You can convince me that I need algebra in my life. I have a solid fixed mindset about it, not gonna change it. Don't plan to change it. I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

I was just about to say, so, Prayna, what is your fixed mindset? You didn't even, I didn't even get the question out and you answered it.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I know my fixed mindset. I know my fixed mindset very clearly. Algebra, you know, I used to have a fixed mindset about numbers, but now owning a business, I had to change that mindset. I had to get on the board. I gotta figure this out. So, you know, recognizing as a leader or a coach, when you have a growth mindset, like you look at everything as a as a as an opportunity. Let's figure it out. We got this, let's go. Like, if that's the mindset you have, you have a growth mindset versus the other kind like, oh, this feels overwhelming, this feels too much, this is not worth the word, trouble, I don't have the time. Like all of the reasons why it wouldn't work come up. So if you're a leader coach, because I know that's who your audience are, and if by nature you have a growth mindset and you have a teacher with the fixed mindset, it is going to trigger you. Let's just be honest, right? It is such a it did me too yesterday. We had a coaching session for our academy, and there was a coach. So can I just tell you the story? Maybe it's easier to do it. Absolutely. Share the story.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

It's it does just get a conversation between friends.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, this is a story, right? So actually, I was also triggered when I was speaking. I was speaking somewhere the day before yesterday, and I was getting triggered by somebody in the audience. So I'll talk about me personally getting triggered, and then I'll talk about the coach in yesterday because you know it's real. So I was in the training session, and this person didn't want me to get to the solutions. She just kept jumping the gun. She's just like, Well, we have a summer program, we don't have a lot of time, and it's prep time, and what do I do in the moment? And I'm like, if you just give me a minute, I will get there. She just kept insisting that whatever I was going to say wasn't gonna work before I'd said it. And so she had a massive fixed mindset, and it was her attitude was that it was everybody else's fault in the room, and she was trying her best to do this, and her her owner was giving her glaring looks, her co-workers were giving her glaring looks, but she was just completely in her survival brain as the best way that I could frame it. She wasn't ready to receive any information, and she was feeling overwhelmed and shut down. And her only response was, we've already tried that. I already do that, we already do the breathing, we already talked to our kids. Like this is how response was, right? Like it was very, I was finding myself getting triggered. Lady, if you could just give me a minute, I will get to it.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

But I literally had to Well those things that we want to be able to say. I think I really should just always walk around with a t-shirt that's the thought bubble. Because somebody's gonna ask me what that t-shirt means, and I'll be like, it's it do I have permission to say what I'm thinking?

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Right. Yeah. So in the moment, I had to apply one of my own strategies, which is SPA. Stop, breathe and anchor yourself, Prina. Take a deep breath, wiggle your toes, be fully present, have compassion for this lady. She's not trying to be difficult, she just is in her survival brain. Like as she's doing this, this is what has happened in my brain. I'm kind of regulating myself. Okay, she doesn't mean to be difficult. I can see she's in her survival brain. She can receive the information right now. My job is just to soothe her nerves, not to give her information, right? Like I had to talk myself down. She's not going to learn anything from me right now because she's in her survival brain. She's overwhelmed, right? So that was the that was the in-moment strategy that I did. Going back to the story yesterday during the coaching, I had a coach who said she's having issues between two teachers. And the one teacher feels like the other teacher is not doing anything. She's a slacker, she's lazy, and everything is falling on her to-do list, and that she is giving more than she's getting. She is the victim, she is doing more than her fair share, and it's not working. And the coach had so, you know, had asked for help. And during our uh coaching sessions, we do collective wisdom of the who's in the room, right? Like, what ideas do you have? So I'm gonna bubble down what we came up with a strategy to help this coach navigate because she said, I had a strategy with them, I had met with them, and then I went to a conference and I came back, and it seemed like everything fell apart. Like I feel like they they wanted to be together, is why these teachers were put together to start with. They wanted to be together. Now they can't stand each other, and everything is falling apart. But it's like team dynamics is real, it's a real stress, and somebody in the team dynamic feels like I'm doing more than the other person, and it's just not fit.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

I am always going to, from now on, praying, every time we have this conversation, I am going to have visions of two people on a tandem bicycle, and one of them's going forwards, and one of them is going backwards, or the one in the back just has their feet up on the on the thing, and they're just like cruising, right? I'm like, oh I have a little other feature now in my head. Thank you, Carrie. Thank you very much for that.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

No, I'm in the back seat, or am I in the front seat? I'll never take the front bicycle anymore. It'll always be the back one, right? Yep, there you go. So, what do we do with this person? Because we've all seen this person, we've all met this person, we've all had to coach this person. This person could be also us sometimes, right? Let's be honest and fair. This person could also be us sometimes, right? So a couple of the strategies.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

At the same time.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Huh?

SPEAKER_03 12:26

In reality, probably even the same time. At the same time. And it's probably situations where somebody's somebody's emotions has caused us to do the same thing. Yeah. And so I think what's awesome is listening to you give that example is a perfect example of somebody going, okay, I'm the grown-up here, I'm gonna think and calm down, versus immediately respond to how we want to respond. And I think that's so important for our teachers and the leaders, because if we respond the way they're responding to us, we don't get anywhere, right? And I think that's kind of what you even try to get the teachers to ultimately get to is if you're if you're chaotic, the kids are gonna be chaotic, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yes, 100%. So, Kate, what you're referring to, you know, we we need to calm ourselves down, which is why I was saying when I was getting triggered while I was speaking, I had to literally SPA myself, stop, breathe, and anchor myself, and change my narrative in my brain, which I control, nobody else controls. So the narrative in my brain could be this is an annoying person, she's disrupting the session, she's wasting my time. I could get totally triggered because I'm complaining. And in the moment, I had to regulate myself and not get triggered by her because, as professional speakers, you know, we got to just keep that face that you cannot know what we're thinking, but we're like, you know. So I had to regulate my and my story in my head had to change about her. She's in her survival brain. I need to show her compassion. She doesn't mean to be difficult, but this is where she's at in life. Right? So that was her. So yesterday, the the coach who was struggling with this, and she's like, I'm exasperated, I don't know what to do with these two ladies, they're driving me crazy. So this is what I told her. I said, practical strategies, here's what you need to do. Have a one-on-one meeting. The reason you want to have one-on-one meeting is because you want to hear the two perspectives. Because there's always three sides to a story, and at least if you hear two sides of the story. Um, the other thing she said was her coach was saying, one of the coach speaking yesterday was saying one of the teachers was kind of winking at her and saying, Okay, you and I are on the same page, and she's the troublemaker, like it's her problem. And the coach really wanted to dispel that myth that she wasn't taking sides and that she really was going to listen to both. So she didn't want to just make this person feel like, oh yeah, you and I, we got this. Like we we understand where we're coming from. It's the other person's prop problem and fault. And so I told her, I said, ask them one-on-one, and maybe here are some questions you can ask them. What's working well right now? What is not working well right now? And what do you have in terms of ideas and solutions and suggestions to fix what's not working? Right? So just don't answer right now. I want you to go back and think about it, and we're gonna meet, and I want to hear from you because I want your brain to have time to problem solve and not just think on your feet. I want you to think about this seriously. What is working, what's not working, and what is your two suggestions or three suggestions to make it better, what's not working. Because then you don't have to spend hours having one-on-ones, right? Nobody has time. This could be a quick, short connect, 20 minutes, what's working, what's not working, your perspective done. Meet with both of them and then bring them together and set some ground rules before you bring them together. We're not blaming people. This is not a personality bashing. It is focused on the task. You've both thought about what's working, what's not working, what ideas you're going to change. And it's really important that you use I statements. During this conversation together, no finger pointing, no personality blaming, staying with the task and using I statements. I felt frustrated when you changed the baby's schedule and you didn't tell the parents, which is exactly what the example she gave me. So, you know, and my suggestion is we do this or that. So that was one thing that brings them together. The second was the third step was actual practical strategies. She said the real challenge in this classroom is these teachers are ships in passing night, they don't have time to connect. So they there's there, you know, lots of miscommunication, misunderstanding is happening. And she said, you know, we we thought we had fixed it. We added a third person there. And I said, Well, do the two people know that that's the role of the third person? Like clarity of role, right? She is here so that you both can talk, so that you can hand over the batan, so that there could be consistency. She said, Oh, you know, now that you mention that, that third person is just there and they're just doing their task. Ugh so no clarity, right? So we gave you a solution. That's what the leadership thought. They gave her a solution, they gave a third person, but they didn't know how to utilize it, and they should be actually having a connect versus you know, I started the conversation with connection before correction. All of the work I'm doing is around that. You need to have that connect, right? You need to have that time to connect because you're both triggered, you're both frustrated, and you're thinking the other person is at fault and you're just the victim and you're doing everything right. Belief in versus buy-in. Do you believe in, maybe to your your conversation? Do you believe in the task? Do you believe in the importance of that task? Do you understand it? Or do you have a buy-in, right? You can get somebody to buy-in. You can get somebody to buy-in, but if they don't believe in it, they can do it consistently and they can do it with fidelity because I don't understand the why. I don't even this is unimportant to me, right? The belief in buy-in is such a critical thing. And really, as coaches and as leaders, so much of the work that we're doing, and and I'm quite honest, I'm applying all this to myself too, right? Like I can coach somebody if I can coach myself first. The problem starts with me, right? Like I gotta be able to. So if we go deeper with any of these examples, what's the why? What's the fear? What's the barrier? What got in the way? Right? Like what got in the way, especially with people who have this victim, or I know it better. Or, you know, in in the intro, you were talking about if I've been here three months or three years or 30 years, this is how I've always done it. There's no way, this is the best way. It is really hard to change that mindset if we don't start with acknowledging and validating. Right? Like we got to start with acknowledging and validating. You seem very uh sure about that. You're very confident about that, you feel very comfortable that this works. Um and you seem very frustrated about it, or this seems very overwhelming to you, or this feels very hard for you. And I feel like if you can just acknowledge and validate, it kind of soothes the other person's nervous system. So they don't have to then convince you that you're on their side.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

That's great. I mean, then the it's kind of like naming a spade, right? Call a spade a spade, right? Name it. Because if you can't name it, then you don't even know what you've got, right? Like I think that hopefully anybody who's listening is understanding that like Prana has dropped some gems and some nuggets. Like, pull out your post-it notes, stop this, go back, rewind. Because I feel like several of the, like, I think I feel like I've got, I mean, I was making notes. I've got like four little tidbits of things that I'm like, you know, I've heard and I've heard Prana speak. I this is not new content for me, but sometimes you're just in a different place and a different day, or you had a week where you're like, maybe I need to go back and listen to Prana again. So, folks, you know, go back and save the Prana conversations so that when you are finding yourself triggered as a leader, you go, Oh yeah, Prana told me I'm supposed to take care of myself too, because we forget.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

You know, you're you're saying something really important. Thank you, Kate, for that. Thank you. But this is real work, right? Like leadership and coaching is not in a vacuum in a closet, right? Like all three of us on this call right now are actively coaching and supporting and leading. And we're and this is the honest truth. We're all growing too. None of us can say we have mastered it. So when we hear somebody say something, one of us hears something say something, it lands in a different way because this is how that onion layer is being peeled, because you're ready to receive it right now, right? Acknowledging and validating, even for yourself. This is really hard. Everything is falling on my shoulders. This is hard, but not impossible. Right? Like even self-talk, like I think sometimes we get stuck in the victim loop. Leaders and coaches, especially, because you're sandwiched in the middle. If you're middle management, you're definitely sandwiched in the middle. If you're the top owner, you feel like you're carrying all the burden. If you're the teacher listening and you have aspirations to become a coach, you are also feeling like it's not fair, right? It's not fair. I'm sandwiched, I'm giving so much. I give so many suggestions, nobody implements. Oh my God, just do it. I've told you what to do. You don't do it. It's a real thing, right? So, yeah, even acknowledging and validating for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

But you know what? Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna pause real quick because I want somebody who is listening. It doesn't matter if you're an owner or a teacher, I want you. Think about these are strategies that the although Prana is talking from an ECE in the classroom in a work environment, these can be used every single day. If you've got toddlers, if you've got five-year-olds, God help you, if you've got teenagers, even your young adults in your life, right? There are times where, and the more we do something, the better we get, right? The more we practice, the better we get. So use these. Take out those little notepads, pull out the post-it notes, put it on your on your computer screen so that even if you're having a phone call with somebody who's not a client, it could be, you know, somebody who's just frustrated you because you had plans and they canceled. Well, take a deep breath and maybe find out. Maybe something happened in their world and they just had didn't share it all with you because they thought it was just quicker to, you know, the positive intent, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

The positive intent.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Why the cancel? Because the cancel could be a trigger, right? We all have had times where somebody canceled and you're like, really, you didn't know 10 minutes ago, and you're canceling 10 minutes after we were supposed to get started.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

The positive intent goes a long way for ourselves. And the thing it comes down to grace, right? Like grace for ourselves, grace for others. And I think we're all lacking in grace right now because we're such in reactive mode instead of responsive mode. And I'm just finding that it adds so much stress to life right now. It just really adds so much stress to life. Because we have that mentality of caregiving, I really think burnout can happen. And you know the definition of burnout is giving more than you get back. That's burnout, right? That's classic burnout. When we give more than we get back in any relationship, work, home, friendship, whatever. If you feel like you're giving more than you're getting back, burnout is likely to happen. And most of us in early childhood, in education, in the caring field, can suffer from this giving heart that you're not getting back, what you feel you're worthy of or deserve. And that can spiral. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

All right, so Parina, I know that coming up soon, you're getting ready to start a new cycle of courses. Tell us a little bit what that is, how people get involved. There will be more details in the show notes. And so really want to encourage folks that if any of this has resonated with you, go go read more about what's coming up. Uh, but but give us just kind of a little snippet when things start, what it is.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah, so um you know, the coaching that I was referring to is the Behavior Coaching Academy. And so this is the second cohort that I'll be offering. The first one was offered last July and it goes for one year. So the second cohort starts this July, July 23rd. Registration is going on right now. It runs for a year. We meet once a month. It is a group collective gathering from people around the world, and it's designed for leaders, owners, coaches, mentors, and it is designed to teach you skills and tips and skills, techniques to coach. So many of us become a coach with the title, but we haven't had formal training. And this course is designed for neuroscience, human psychology, and the examples that I'm giving you have all come out from the coaching academy. I'm not even the same coach I was before I started these coaching sessions because every time you coach, you refine your own craft, right? So if you're looking for what to say in the moment, you're confronted with this person who is a victim mentality, you're confronted with this resistant person, you're confronted with this stubborn person, this you're confronted with whoever you've been confronted with, what to say in the moment. So we'll give you lots and lots of sentence stems, you'll give you lots and lots of tips and tricks, and you know, how to build a trusting relationship, how to hold them accountable, how to follow through without feeling guilty, how to not be the mean boss and yet hold boundary and hold high expectations. Can I give you one quick tip of uh that just came into my attention that maybe I could share as a tip of what absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

We're gonna give you you get one tip and then Carrie gets to close us out.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Okay. One of the tips to really hold boundary and accountability, which is such a big pain point for so many people, I have an acronym for that. It's called KLFF Kind, loving, firm and fair. You know, most of us can do kind and loving in our sleep. Where we lack is firm and fair. Because we have this misunderstanding or misconception that firmness equals meanness, or firmness equals accountability, and accountability is a bad word and nobody likes it. Let me tell you, accountability is caring. When you hold yourself accountable, when you hold others accountable, the message you're sending is you matter, and I care about this, right? But how to do that? So come to the academy and learn how to implement firm and fair, because you got the kind and loving down, but come to the academy to learn how you can have a sentence in that moment when that person is giving you pushback. What to say when you feel like a power struggle is going on with the parent, with the teacher, with whoever in your life. It has been really successful. Real transformation has happened, even if I say so myself. The testimonials coming out of this is absolutely mind-blowing. They're just like, I'm I have changed my identity as a leader. I have changed my approach as a coach. I feel confident as a coach now. I used to do things for them. Now they're doing it like game changer. The real transformation is happening. I'm excited and grateful. I'm encouraged. Really, really grateful for this because the real transformation is happening. Right? And that's all we want. We don't want any more information, just transformation. That's who it's for. And you don't have to go hire another person for this role, but you do have to have somebody on your team whose job it is. Because if it's everybody's job, it's nobody's job till it's somebody's job. Let's talk about the ROI in investing in a person on your team who's going to support the teachers. You are losing $3,500 a year for every person who walks out at your door and you hire a new one. So at least minima, right? Minima. And if the return on investment, if you have one person on your team who can learn how to coach the teachers, you will have less staff turnover, less staff burnout, you will have less challenging behaviors. And I'm talking about the behaviors from the grown-ups, not the children.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

I think they kind of go hand in hand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

I think so too, because if the grown-ups are triggered, the little humans are triggered, and we're all triggered and we're all yelling at each other. And really, at the end of the day, early childhood deserves joy, and joy is missing in our programs right now. Our children deserve joy, our teachers deserve joy. Let's advocate for joy. And we can do this hard work. It's hard work, it's important work, it's meaningful work, and we can do better. We can do better.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Thanks for tuning in. We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early childhood education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event, Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at kateandcary.com. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Childcare Conversations.