Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast

#163 - From $7 Million to $140 Million: The Ultimate Blueprint for Growth

• John Wilson • Season 1 • Episode 163

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In this episode, we’re breaking down what it takes to plan for serious growth—both short and long term. 

Jack and John swap stories and hard-won lessons on budget planning, sharpening your SWOT analysis, setting revenue targets, and getting your team firing on all cylinders. They dig into why strong accounting practices are a growth superpower and share practical steps to scale your business effectively.

Key highlights: 

  • Tactical planning and goal setting
  • Why every department matters in hitting goals
  • The importance of data reviews to keep you ahead of the curve.

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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

John Wilson: So when we set our first 10 year BHAG, it was a hundred million dollars.

Jack Carr: You cannot fix what you don't know. 

John Wilson: Like a CFO can literally only do their job if the books are clean and are trying to plan around Google no longer being the dominant search engine next year.

Recently, we've been experimenting with lead aggregators and one of the ones I'm most excited about is a company called Modernize. So what Modernize does is they do direct inbound calls for home improvement. So it's a direct phone call. booking, which is way easier to book and has a much higher book rate than an ANG list or something like that, where you have to sort of recontact them and try to find that, that customer.

Modernize has a direct connection to our call center. So that's been a huge win. It also has some of the services that we've really struggled to get good leads for. Water heater replacements, HVAC units, and water damage restoration and water quality. Well, those ones have been challenging for us to get leads.

And modernize has been a really great partner for us. So make sure you check out modernize.com. 

Jack Carr: Welcome back to Owned & Operated. What's going on John?

John Wilson: This year, we're actually doing a little bit better than last year, but today we were going to talk about short and long term planning.

Jack Carr: Well, yeah, let's, I mean, let's not skip over that because that's not a small item. Like, what do you mean when you say long term planning? What are you planning? And how are you planning? 

John Wilson: Long term planning is just like, what are we going to do? And it could be, what are we going to do next year?

It could be, what are we going to do next 3 years or 5 years or 10 years or 90 days? And developing a muscle around planning and then tracking against that planning has been a big win for us. We've gone through a ton of iterations. I remember I have this picture that my old bookkeeper used to send to me.

Like once a year because I think it shows up on our Facebook feed or something and it was like me laying down on the floor. I was really tired. I was joking, I was 25 or something, during our first annual planning session and we're like a 1. 7 million dollar company and the way we think about annual planning now versus annual planning then was pretty different.

It started off as annual. Then we added, I don't remember when we added quarterlies. I think it was kind of early on and I must've read a book or something that was like to do an annual.

But yeah, I mean, you know, 1. 7 million bucks. And I think the first one we did, we did a SWOT, which is a strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. We're nine years or eight years into doing SWOTs now. Like we feel real comfortable with them. 

Jack Carr: Do you find that valuable? 

We might need to start that because, you know, it's one of those things where I don't know. I just see a lot of these, the corporate jargon, like the SWOTS. I'm like, Oh man, I'm not going to do that. Like it's so corporatey. It's so like, that's why I got out of, I'm not working at a fortune 500 company. I'm not going to do a SWOT.

Like we all know what everything is, but maybe it's a, it's a size thing. Like once you get to a certain size of business, like they're actually become valuable. 

John Wilson: No, I think it's a focus thing. And I think that could be any size. 

Jack Carr: So yeah. But I know who my, like competitors are. Like we all know who the competitors are.

I don't need to do a SWOT to know my competition. Like we're in the business every day. I know who my competition, competition is. I know what my sprint are, I guess depends.

John Wilson: So let's, let's talk about how to do a SWOT real quick. Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. So you do this quartile.

You do like a piece of paper or a chalkboard or something like that. You divide it off into four sections and you list it off. The idea is strengths just get you in the mindset. They're like, Hey, these are the things we good at pure ego boost that you literally do nothing with that section. you just like I've done, I did, I remember this was like four or five years ago and I was like really frustrated about this one thing.

And I was like, we don't have a lot of time. We were in a quarterly, we only had like four hours for this quarterly. I was like, we don't have a ton of time for this, so we're just going to skip, skip strengths and, threats. We're just doing weaknesses and opportunities. Huge mistake. Yeah, like absolutely huge.

Cause and like halfway into it, I was like, God, you guys are really grumpy. And I was like, oh, it's because we skipped the feel good part of the whole freaking exercise. So yeah, strengths is purely like pat yourself on the back. Here's what we do better. Strengths are internal. So like, here's what we do better than that guy.

Weaknesses are what do you do worse internally than your competitors? So, Hey, we, our retainment is bad or our training isn't what it needs to be. Our Google reviews are bad, you know, whatever. Find something that you're not doing as well as your competitors.

Opportunities are things internal or external that you could be doing that you're not. We've had buy companies on opportunities. We've had launch electrical on opportunities. We've had a lot. And then threats is purely external. Economy. You know, like you literally can't control it. And that's what threats is for. "Hey, over a three year time period, I need to keep this in mind."

And we're going to be thinking about it. So for example one of our threats right now is search like Google search. We are trying to plan around Google no longer being the dominant search engine next year. And that's a big deal. That's an existential level threat.

For home service, I'm sure there's gonna be a replacement. I think most of the most of these whippersnappers listening don't know this but like Google search the way it was today and GMB and all that stuff that was introduced in 2015 to the trades and Before that you had giant companies surviving off TV radio mailers all that stuff. GMB, LSA, PPC, all that stuff, is driving real SEO traffic, that was what made the home service market today.

So that was an existential threat, the addition of Google search. And now everyone's used to it a decade in, and that's being threatened. So I see this as much of a existential threat as I recognized 10 years ago, was, hey, this is where incumbents get passed. Because whoever gets better at the new thing is going to win.

Jack Carr: Definitely. And so you're doing that quarterly or you're doing that yearly? 

John Wilson: We do a yearly and three quarterlies.

And then we do weekly touch bases and we do daily pulses against those weeklies. And now we actually just added monthly budget reviews. And the bigger we've gotten and the more complicated we've gotten, the more we've added to try to like figure out if we're on pace or not, and then help catch problems if we're not on pace.

All the way down to like every day, like what's our, what's our net margin every day? What's our gross margin every day? We're looking at it every day. 

Jack Carr: How do you, you're dictating everything though off the yearly, correct? Because the way we do it is we start off at the end of the year, the very beginning of the year, where we go through and we get the bookkeeper, managers together and we set a goal point on where we realistically think that we will end next year.

So if we say, Hey, we want to do 6 million next year, 10 million next year, and then we work our way back. Okay. 10 million is going to be what split based on our current split. How much plumbing, how much, HVAC and then we split that down even farther. How much HVAC install versus how much HVAC service?

Well, if we want to get this many installs how many flips, do we need from our techs? Versus how much marketing dollars do we need? And then we split that down. Okay. We need to actually hire three, four techs to hit that. But we also, that would mean that we need to triple or quadruple or our leads in which cost us this much per lead. And so that's how we kind of work our way back It's just like boom boom boom to get to the the brass tacks of it. And then we I think that's great. We split that up on a monthly based on historicals from a percentage base. So in February, we talked about would get maybe a 10%, but we want to beat that this year.

So we would say, okay, well, we need to at least shoot for breakeven. And that would be X amount. And that's, you know, instead of being one 12th, it's probably going to be one 18th or one 16th. And then June, July, August, obviously do better. So that's how we are looking at it. Then we'll make sure that we're calculating this based on, efficiencies and on how much a percent of labor we want each revenue to be like, and so on and so forth.

Is that how you guys are looking at it? 

John Wilson: Yeah. So like, that's a combination of annual targets and like a budgeting process, which I think is great. And then the annuals was the first thing we did too. So when we first launched, we were doing an annual, and then I think we started a weekly huddle and that was like eight years ago.

And then like it's fluctuated here and there. I feel like we have a really good cadence now. So the way we do it is we set a 10 year target and a lot of this is out of EOS. If you guys are using EOS, well, we set a 10 year target. And it's meant to be vague as hell. And the 10 year target is just like, here's my, here's my BHAG.

Here's my big, hairy, audacious goal. it's meant to be scary. It's meant to be intimidating. You're not supposed to know how you're going to get there. So when we set our first 10 year BHAG, it was 100 million. by 2031. So right now we're targeting 140. 

Jack Carr: I mean, that's not unachievable for you, I feel like.

Like, there's a path there. Your big goal in 10 years. That's pretty wild. 

John Wilson: When we said that we finished 2021 at 7 million. So we had a 93 million gap. We weren't even eight figures yet and we felt like we could do nine. So like it looks like we're on a path now, but three years ago when we said that, It was like I don't even know where to begin.

Now we feel like I still don't know, but I have a direction. 

So you take this 10 year target. And then that's static. So my 10 year target by end of 2032 is 140.

Then you do a rolling three year and the rolling three year is where the opportunities and threats come in a little bit more. So like that might be a new market. So like hey, I want to be 140 million down to I need to be in two markets or three markets. Then you go down to annual and annuals are really similar to what you just described Hey in order In order to be on track for a three year and if we're on track for a three year then we're on track for a 10 year What do I have to do in the next 12 months?

So you like bite size a little bit more. So like our, our budget for next year is 31 million. we set an EBITDA target. We set a revenue per employee target. We set a bunch of other qualitative targets. Like we want X amount of members. We want X amount of reviews. and then we add the budget on top of that.

Jack Carr: Can you talk about some of those other targets? Cause that's a good point. Like I haven't thought about that as "Hey, how many reviews do we want to generate?" Like how are we going to strengthen? 

John Wilson: When we first started doing annuals, a lot of the focus was purely the qualitative.

We didn't talk budgets at all. We actually just started talking budgets and numbers in our annuals. We would do what it sounded like you did, which is like, here's the North star. Here's what we're going for. 10 million bucks or eight, you know, whatever. But not much of like a, what else?

So some of the examples would be like, Hey, we got to do a deal this year, or I have to figure out how to launch a new location or we need, we want to double our membership this coming year. we've talked about moving, we need to finish a project, 

Jack Carr: Big heads up by the way, your boy secured an extra 4,000 square foot, 2,000 square foot of warehouse space and another like thousand square foot office space, three, four offices and another thousand square foot of, warehouse space. So we already 6,000 square feet come January. So nervous about that though. Like that's, I mean, that has shot up percentage wise of our real estate, like rent to revenue ratio but there's no other way.

And they're attached to our current building. So that's great. I'm so excited. Like there's no moving necessary. We're going to be able to lock down all of our inventory and tools, which has been a nightmare. And we have extra offices because we are tight. We are tight in office space right now.

I'm super excited, but yeah. 

John Wilson: So something like that would go on our annual of like, Hey, we're out of room. What do we do? We need a solution. Sometimes it's buying trucks. Sometimes it's launching a new trade.

Sometimes it's hiring a manager. It's like, what are the other aspects that we need to do this year in order to be on track for a three year, which keeps us on track for a 10 year. Then we take the one year and we break that down into quarterlies. So like, Hey, In order to hit our one year, here's what I have to do in the next 90 days.

I have to complete this project. I have to hire a purchaser. We have to perfect our financial reporting to operations. Like these are some of our real rocks. We added some more real estate. So we have to get that online. So, so those are, so those are like the next 90 days. And then you do this weekly meeting called in EOS called Mel 10.

And you basically just, am I on track for my 90 day goal? You do a lot of other stuff in there too, but am I on track for my 90 day goal? Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. And then it all sort of becomes this one cohesive planning unit. Now, we're like three years into it. We're getting really good at it. And I think the addition of budgets, which is like, that's a totally new discipline for us.

Has made a real impact. 

Jack Carr: Well I can also imagine too, like you guys have revamped your account. We've talked about this this year. You revamped your accounting, like you have more managers in place to be able to pull this data and like it no longer falls, right? Historically, it would be like, John, bookkeeper manager, that's who's collecting all this data and making those decisions. 

Now it's like, Hey, I have a mastermind within my business of really intelligent people who know their stuff and they're able to generate realistic goals and how plans to get there. 

John Wilson: Yeah. What I definitely didn't understand and I' still don't feel like I do, but I think I'm like, it's conscious and competence now.

I had no concept of how much a strong accounting department would add to the business, purely from just like acts like fast access to data. Like, I totally get it now. 

I don't think we're like fully dialed and locked in, but we are way better. And just to like give an example, like our gross margin right now, we're going to cap out, but like over the past five months, as we've continued to dial in our daily, weekly, and monthly reporting, our gross margin has gone up a percent to a percent and a half month over month over month.

Like we just continue to get better. I mean, material keeps going down. Labor keeps getting controlled. We get closer to revenue budget. 

Jack Carr: I mean, and we just keep getting it. That makes so much sense though. Like you cannot fix what you don't know. And without that good accounting part, department or at least good bookkeeper, like every step in accounting helps you get to like, Hey, we need to know.

And we just don't. And cause that's our problem right now is we are trying to find these buckets, but these buckets are hidden behind like a layer of, you know, accounting. And so the minute that you can do that, you can actually start like attacking, rather than just blind attacking. Cause that's what we do.

It's like, Hey, well, how much, what percent of our job revenue is, is cogs? We don't know. So how do you attack that? Like you can go to your vendor and say, Hey, can we get 1 percent off our thing or can we get a bigger rebate? And yeah, they'll probably do it. But is that the best use of time? Who knows?

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Jack Carr: When your labor is 17 percent too high, like you should be attacking a viewer. 

John Wilson: Wilson just wrapped up the year in the low 20s, and we were pumped. I mean, most of the industry did not have that same level of success. And when I think about who was a huge partner for us, like top of the list was Service Scalers.

We've been working with Service Scalers for a couple years now, and they've helped us drive best in class SEO, best in class PPC. And dominate LSA and GMB marketing. They've been a huge partner for us. And we're really grateful for that partnership because it's helped us to take down 46 percent year over year growth.

As we think about our budget next year, we're aiming for the low thirties. And one of our most strategic partners is going to be service dealers. They're going to help get us there. They're going to help us stay ahead of AI. They're going to help us keep our SEO relevant. They're going to help keep us on the top exactly where we want to be.

So make sure you check out service scalers. com. Sam and his team over there is just a bunch of killers. So thank you service scalers for your partnership. 

Yeah, I think, we've, we've gotten better at it, but no, I mean, it's, I think it's real. And then we've added more stuff to it. And like, the big thing now is like, how do we keep it simple?

And how do we not? Like drown in meetings because you can't make an impact if you're joining meetings. How do you also give the people the information they need? So we're experimenting. We're, I think we're two months in now. I have a 20, 30 minute, departmental financial check every Monday with all four departments.

Here was your gross margin by tech last week. Here was your revenue by tech. Here was your closing rates. Here were your options. Here was your revenue, your sales, like the whole bit. And then it's like, Hey, this guy, he didn't hit it last week. Like, what are we going to do?

And then we're going to go do a ride along or we're going to respond with this training or, you know, we're gonna do whatever. And then that's been a huge win and that's departmental. And now we're getting ready to add that on a senior leadership basis. Or like a cost center basis. And actually this one, I got my kind of excited about, cause it's like, we're going to do this weekly pulse check for call center and HR and marketing.

How many leads do we need? How many did we book? What was our book rate? And just sort of this, like, a more intimate accountability than a weekly or monthly meeting. and also, Hey, this is the budget. Are we on track or off track? How do we correct it fast enough to make a difference? So if we're halfway through the month and we're 20 percent behind on calls, what are we going to do?

I don't think we're fully there, but , I feel like we're leagues ahead of where we were even just eight months ago. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. So I was, I was laughing while you're talking and it was because, you know, some people are jealous of other people's cars or shoes, but you know, you're a business owner when I'm jealous of your accounting department and your availability to data within your own business.

So all that data is helping you to drive this yearly quarterly monthly weekly, maybe sometimes daily data target that gives you the targets and lets you know if you're on track. So what's your advice?

John Wilson: know like real daily It's not like a mystery to us of when we hit breakeven. Like, yes, we go into a month with an assumption, but no, we will actually hit breakeven today. And being able to confidently make decisions is really helpful.

Jack Carr: Yeah. I mean, I joked with you a few days ago about creating a little offshoot business that was for service, CPAs or surface bookkeepers because, you know, realistically that is numbers kind of difficult to get. It's kind of crazy. But yeah, we are so we're working spend working so hard to reach that.

So I want to take it back a step, right? So this all sounds like a lot for I'm sure a lot of people because it's, I mean, it's a big deal, but there's also so much to be able to do that. At what point were you able, like, I guess, what's your advice for somebody to start on this path of budgeting and like, how do we dig in and say, John, I have a bookkeeper.

We kind of look at it on the yearly. Where do I start? We're a three million, two million, one million dollar company. What should we focus on to get the most bang for our buck? Because we don't have this. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I mean it starts with clean financials. Like how clean is your QuickBooks file? And then how clean are you keeping data inside of Service Titan?

Like if I look at your closing rate, is it real? Or is that different? 

Jack Carr: Get a good bookkeeper, fractional bookkeeping, in house bookkeeping. 

John Wilson: I think it depends on your size. Like, the big thing that I'm learning from accounting, accounting is obviously a cost center, and our jobs are to reduce cost centers. 

But we've intentionally at this point over resourced accounting. Because accounting has been a pain, like if you've listened any amount of time, accounting has been like a 10 year pain point for me. And the only reason that we're making significant progress over the past four or five months is we are over resourcing that department.

And that is purely payroll, right? So we have an accounting manager, we have a controller, AP, AR, payroll, five people. Everyone that I've talked to is like, yeah, it's probably a person or two too many. And I'm like, I'm getting stuff done. So I guess I just don't care. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. I mean, and for everyone else listening, there are some great AR, AP payroll, all of that can be outsourced to global talent.

Wonderful 500 companies, even like staff accountants. I'd be very careful, obviously, just because of the rules, regulations, giving access to bank accounts, things of that nature with somebody that's overseas and not in jurisdictions of the U. S. however, that being said, from kind of like a lower end bookkeeping, ARAP. 

Overseas hires and global talent, there are some really great options and keep your well within your financial target. You could hire three or four of these guys and gals who can handle multiple positions at favorable rates. 

John Wilson: So our AP and AR are overseas. In house controller, in house accounting manager, in house payroll.

Those felt like things we didn't want to move overseas, personally, but I do have friends that have overseas controllers. It works great. I just want the ability, especially cause we're still like, you know, we're coming from a point of like not being strong in accounting. So I want that in person connection to be able to really like drive a difference.

Jack Carr: Also from what I found, like having somebody, yes, technically you can get someone overseas who would understand US tax law well enough that they, as a CPA could help you out here. But, I feel like that's rare, right? They're not generally going to be US. tax experts. Great bookkeepers though.

Great accountants. 

John Wilson: I think it depends on what you're trying to get. 

 Like there's people that report what happened and there's people that report and can make an impact on what happened. And you're looking for the impact. And I feel like it would be really challenging to make an impact on, Hey, if I missed my materials budget or my labor, Tell me what happened so I can start figuring out what to fix.

Like where did I, where was the problem? and I really think that's the thing that you want because I don't think it's it's not especially hard to find somebody to like do journal entries. You just need someone that can be help be a partner when you go to fix the issue. 

Jack Carr: Yeah, I'm, but to start though, right, to start, I think that, Where the starting point is even somebody just to do turn boundaries, right?

Somebody who you, you know, you can get data from and you can start to move in that direction because you're not, you know, you're not building the pyramids in one day. You're just putting the first blocks down. 

John Wilson: Yeah. And I think the big thing I would encourage everybody to do is like you, there's zero value in a fractional CFO.

If you don't have good day to day bookkeeping already. So I will see people try to hire this fractional CFO. They're going to take your money. Sure. They don't care. but you don't have an accountant yet, or you don't have a bookkeeper or you don't have AP. So like your books are a total mess.

Like a CFO can literally only do their job if the books are clean and their job isn't usually to clean the books. So you like step one is bookkeeping and don't waste your money on some fractional, whatever. Just get somebody to record the transactions. We started really moving when we got good clean bookkeeping. 

Jack Carr: So that, that's high recommendation early on. 

John Wilson: Yeah, but annual planning, like you can start anywhere with it.

I think just with long term planning. What's the long or short term? What's my one year target? What do I have to get done this year? How's it going to impact? What do we want to hit revenue wise? Whatever. Yeah. You can complicate it as much as you want or simplify it as much as you want.

We have had a lot of success with our structure. and it helps us like all keep moving, especially like the bigger the company gets, you know, these, these teams start operating in silos and it takes a, like really intentional to break down these walls in between the team. So like marketing and call center have to communicate in rhythm and install coordination and warehouse have to coordinate in rhythm every single day, but they've got their own teams, their own team leaders, their own whatever.

And this cadence of communication, this cadence of planning helps you connect the dots. what we've been doing recently, just cause a lot of our team is like, we're still new to having. fully developed support teams. A lot of what we focused on this year during the annual was like, literally what are you doing this year?

What are you, what's your team doing? Because from an ops perspective, people move in different speeds. So like ops is focused on today. Right now I've got a job exploding. I got to go get out there and help my tech. Like, that's what, that's where Ops is at, at any given moment. HR is focused on, like, a quarterly goal to increase retention.

And, like, if you need help, if those teams collide on a project, or on, like, a daily issue, they're not speaking the same language. Like, one is focused in the next five minutes, and one is focused, like, six months from now. And you got to connect them. Yeah. And, and it's a, it's a, it's honestly like, it's a hard tech.

It's like my part, big part of my job, we call it the great connector. but a lot of these planning sessions and like pulses help keep these teams understanding. What does this team actually do and when I need them, how can I use them? 

Jack Carr: Communication is key. It sounds like because each different team, as you start to grow, does different things at different speeds, at different cadences and connecting all them together on a common goal.

And so that was what I was going to ask about your quarterly's or your yearly is right. You're setting these dates, but I think it's, it's also important. You're going in behind that, right. And saying. How do I get there? Like what do you need to do?

It's not, this is not a fluff exercise. We're not saying hey, we want to grow 3 million next year. It's how are we going to grow 3 million next year? Correct. 

John Wilson: It's tactical. It's very, it's really tactical. And that's the purpose, you know, back to our first thing. That's the purpose of a SWOT is the SWOT helps you focus.

So, Hey, here's our weaknesses and opportunities. These are the things we have to focus on. Cause these are the things that are either going to trip us up or get us revenue. And these are the things that we have to focus on of the hundred things going on in our life that we already know every single day.

There's probably three that are the most important. And this is how you get alignment across five different departments of, Hey, we have a really big membership churn problem right now. And that's a huge weakness. And that will prevent us from adding 9 million of revenue in 2025. We have to fix it. That's going to take call center.

That's going to take marketing. That's going to take every operations team. Like it's going to involve a lot of people. How do we get on the same page on that? That one thing. So that's how swats tie in. Like they are, they matter. It is a really helpful exercise. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. Sound. I mean, it sounds like it. I, I know I give it some, some grief at the beginning, but you know, if you're utilizing it as a framework to figure out how to reach things and where your opportunities are then yeah. You know, it can't hurt. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I mean, I don't do a lot of them, but like, we might do one or two a year. 

Jack Carr: Well I say, you know, use 'em as an in an intentful way once again. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

It is meant to give you tactical "Here's what I need to fix in the next X time period to get to my goal." So that's, that's how we use it. And it works well. And it really gets us focused. Now you can also add like voting to SWOTS because like, if you do weaknesses you might have like a hundred weaknesses, right?

50, it doesn't matter. But like, what are the four that we're going to build our yearly goals on? Like, what are the four most important ones that like, we'll literally stop this company if we don't fix it. So, and you pick them and you work on them. 

Jack Carr: Awesome, man. I mean this all sounds like we've really hit into the depths of yearly planning, budgeting on a yearly, monthly, quarterly, weekly, and even down to the daily.

I love it. I love it. 

John Wilson: Yeah, I'll report back in April, but our theory is we've gotten a lot better at this, especially the daily and weekly over the course of this year and the speed of our reporting. 

So we're expecting to have a much stronger bottom line in Q1. Because we're dialed in, like we are locked in on daily numbers, so yeah, we think we can like, I don't think it's going to be good, but I think it will be less painful because of how much focus we have on this.

Jack Carr: Yeah, I mean, what did they say? Focus is where you drive the ball. That's where you really make the difference. Where you're focusing is where you go. It'll be interesting to see. I'm excited. 

John Wilson: The quarterly's is the logical next step. Like, hey, we set this target of six million bucks this year. Are we on track? Like we need to do a million in quarter one.

Do we do it? Yeah. No. Or a million and a half in quarter one, whatever it ends up being. And what are the other tasks? Like what prevented us from doing it? 

Jack Carr: Yeah. How do we get there? Cause I think those are good pivot points on a monthly, right? You look at a monthly and you go, okay, do we, when do we lose?

Do we hit budget? Do we not? And then next month it's like, okay, well, what do we need to change? But really the quarterly is a point where like, Hey, we're We were on track for this or we're not like, where's the big pivot to make it? 

John Wilson: All right. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in. To the talk on budgeting and annual planning quarterly planning.

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