Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast

#189 How to Scale a Small HVAC Business with Proven Strategies

• John Wilson • Season 1 • Episode 189

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From Investment Banking to HVAC Ownership: Will’s First 90 Days Scaling a Service Business
Looking to scale your HVAC or home service business effectively? In this episode of Owned and Operated, we sit down with Will, a former investment banker who’s now leading an HVAC company, to unpack real strategies for rapid, sustainable growth in the trades. Whether you’re acquiring your first business or streamlining operations post-acquisition, this episode is packed with actionable advice.

🚨 In This Episode, We Cover:
🔹 Why wearing too many hats can kill your growth
🔹 What Will changed in the first 90 days of ownership
🔹 How to create a pricing model that actually works
🔹 Managing uncertainty in a post-tariff environment
🔹 The difference in leading white-collar vs. blue-collar teams
🔹 How to tackle inefficiencies without losing momentum
🔹 The must-have elements of a long-term growth plan

Shout Out to FieldPulse 🚀
FieldPulse is an incredible Field Service Management platform that helps you save hours each week while keeping your operations running smoothly. If you're looking to streamline your processes, stay competitive, and focus on what truly matters, FieldPulse is a game-changer!

📅Book your demo:

💼 Shoutout to our Owned and Operated Pro program. We’ve built Owned and Operated Pro for operators who are serious about growth. It's the behind-the-scenes pass to real acquisition strategies, deep dives into operations, and the exact tools we're using to scale service businesses.

🔗 Unlock exclusive content, private AMAs, and tactical playbooks here: 

🎙️ Episode Hosts:
🗣️ John Wilson – @WilsonCompanies

🗣️ Jack Carr – @thehvacjack 

🎙️ Episode Guest:
🗣️ Will Schryver – LinkedIn

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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

189 Transcript

John Wilson: [00:00:00] Do you like HVAC? 

Will Schryver: Managing white collar and now managing blue collar guys is very, very different. You cannot scale a company through one individual wearing five, six different hats. 

John Wilson: I actually got taught this lesson by a competitor who's bigger than us, or they were bigger than us. 

Will Schryver: Yeah, 

Jack Carr: can't stop a terrain, baby.

Can't 

Will Schryver: stop. A can't stop it. So that's what we did. If these tariffs stay in place, contractors out there who do not react, as I described, a year from now, are gonna be outta business.

John Wilson: Field Pulses is the all-in-one field management solution for growing home service companies. Field Pulses is designed to simplify your day-to-day operations by combining everything you need into one platform. It also includes integrations to help you save time like QuickBooks Desktop and online. It has a bunch of advanced tools and features like A CRM estimates and invoicing.

Good, better, best options, maintenance plans, a robust [00:01:00] price book and scheduling dispatching Field Pulse will transform the way that you manage your field team altogether. It will save you time and find revenue that you didn't even know existed. Whether you're a small company that's looking to grow or a larger company looking to optimize Field Pulse head, the tools that you need to do it.

And don't just take our word for it. Field Pulse has earned over 580 below reviews with an average rating of 4.8 stars. That's Field EU, LSE. Head to their website to learn more. Field pulse.com. 

Jack Carr: Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today we have an awesome new owner Will. How is it going? Very good. Oh, and we have John here in the new studio.

If you want to jump on YouTube, take a look at his fake plants in the background. I love it. Wow. I'm ex I'm very jealous. Uh, that's, it's not me hating on it, it's more so just extreme jealousy of that. I don't have a studio yet, so. 

John Wilson: Yeah, it's, uh, it's good. It's like big, like, [00:02:00] um, it's big. So we, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll dive into the studio and then we'll actually talk about, uh, will here, but like, just finished the studio last week.

There's a sofa thing over here. We're optimizing for in-person interviews, so if you're ever in Ohio and you wanna talk, great. Um, and then it's like a full blown production studio. So like, we can do quite a bit here, which is kind of fun. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. I mean, legitimately when I saw it, I, I did the whole bora thing of wo as he walks into the room.

Like it, it is so big. Um, I, I'm pumped. It, it is really cool looking. So yeah, everyone jump onto YouTube, check it out. Check it out. 

John Wilson: Cool. Will, I'm, I'm pumped to have you on here. Yeah, me too. Thanks for jumping on. Uh, you've been sharing. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. You, you've been sharing your story over the past, I dunno, six months or so on Twitter.

Uh, just sort of like the journey of buying HVAC companies and 

Will Schryver: Yeah. It's, um, it, it, it was, it is funny. I, I've had an account for I think 11 years, 10 or [00:03:00] 11 years, something like that, and I never posted anything. I would just follow people and the, pretty much the day I left investment banking is when I, I started, I said, let me post a couple things, my thoughts, my journey, and see if people find it interesting.

Yeah. And that was literally a year ago almost to the date. 

John Wilson: Okay. 

Will Schryver: Yeah, it's been a. A pretty wild ride. I met some amazing people on that platform. I mean, there's a lot of weirdos out there, which I stay away from and a lot of garbage. But guys like yourselves, I mean, this is why I do it, is I keep going, I keep posting because I've, it broadened my network beyond what I thought was possible.

It's, it's amazing out there. So yeah, it's been good. 

John Wilson: Yeah, we, uh, we, we just had HoldCo comm last week and, uh, I did a talk on how media can accelerate your core business. And like, that was sort of the whole concept is like, hey, you put yourself out there and you share, and you, [00:04:00] you, you know, people pay attention and on one hand it's kind of disconnected from what you do during the day.

Like, my day job is running a plumbing company. Um, why am I podcasting? Uh, but on the other, like, there are some pretty clear ways to make it, uh, make it win. Mm-hmm. 

Will Schryver: For 

John Wilson: you. Mm-hmm. 

Will Schryver: Definitely. Yeah. De yeah, definitely. I mean, even if it's, maybe I don't directly benefit from it, but if I can help somebody else, they're going through something.

I mean mm-hmm. My, my background is banking, so a lot of the guys that reach out to me, uh, they're mid sixties and they're looking to sell. They just don't know what to do with their company or what it's worth, you know, basic questions or I, I consider it basic, but for them it's like rocket science. But for me it's, it's not.

So that's where I can help them out. But on the flip side, I've had guys reach out to me and offer up advice like this, Hey, I'm a first time operator. I don't, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. Yeah. So I'm trying to learn from [00:05:00] guys that are reaching out to me and, and just help me out. So it's two ways straight.

That's how I look at it. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. So when did you close on, on your business then? I. 

Will Schryver: So with Nolan Air, uh, a couple months ago. So I'm, I'm very early in Okay. On, uh, on this journey. So there's, I'm, I'm learning a lot, drinking from a fire hose, literally daily. Mm-hmm. Um, seven days a week, in fact. Um, but it, but it, but it, but it's good.

We're already making some pretty positive changes, uh, which I can go into detail on that. But yeah, our, our plan is to create a nice, sizable asset, whether that's under Nolan Air or multiple brands that cover the majority of Florida, not, not everywhere in Florida. I don't want to, I don't wanna just focus on, you know, a, a shotgun blast approach of like, Hey, I wanna buy all these brands in random 

John Wilson: Yeah.

Will Schryver: Cities and MSAs that really have no rhyme or reason being together. I wanna be methodical [00:06:00] about it and focus really on Southwest Florida and build a, a nice, I'll call it a platform, but, um. You know, a small collection of brands that are kind of operating together and we can capture those cost synergies.

So I'm an inning one of that journey. Like I know what needs to be built and that's what I'm focused on. And I know, John, you posted about building a hundred million dollars company one day. Like I, I have a similar vision. And I'm starting with something very, very small and I'm working my way towards that.

Jack Carr: Yeah. Hey, what size is Nolan now? Good news for you. Wait before John, before we get started, good news for him is that there is a bunch of companies that just came up for sale in and around Florida. Oh man. It might be a little bit hairy. Tosses 

John Wilson: punches, bro. They're passing punches. They must a little 

Jack Carr: hairy and coming out of a, uh, bankruptcy, but I, I haven't heard of that.

Will Schryver: Please inform me what's, what's going on there. Yeah, that, that's a, that's a tough one right there. 

Jack Carr: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sorry. I had to throw, I had to throw it [00:07:00] in there 'cause we, we just recorded that a few weeks ago and it was super fun. So, 

Will Schryver: yeah. Well, I, I mean, I don't wanna go on a tangent on that one, but I know the operating assets for Under Air Pros, they had some really good companies.

It was just an over leveraged situation. I mean, they took on an insane amount of debt, which I know you guys already covered that in Yeah. One of your recent podcasts. But I mean, the underlying assets themselves, they're, they're good brands making a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. It's just way too much debt.

John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the case and it just becomes like this spiral. Um, and it, it sucks. I mean, I still feel like I feel bad for, I mean, the employee should be fine. Like, should be fine. Yeah. The, the challenge I think is gonna be the owners that sold and mm-hmm. All, all that equity just like is going away.

Uh, like whatever, whatever rolled, I think that just sucks. Um, it does. Yeah. How, how big is No and Air now, like what's the specs on this? [00:08:00] 

Will Schryver: Um, yeah, I'll go into just high level details. I mean, it's, it's a small brand, um, but it's, it's, I. What I consider is, it's a really good start, you know, so this buy and build journey.

Yeah. Um, I thought it was a good starting point to build something, um, you know, we'll call it just under a hair, under 2 million top line. Yeah. When I first, when I first came across it, I said, you know, I like what I see, but I'm, and it was a broker deal. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Will Schryver: I initially, I initially passed on it or at least put it on the back burner and said, let me go look at a few other things, larger assets, right.

Closer to, you know, five, six, 7 million, top line, closer to that million of ebitda. But what I very quickly realized, uh, is guess what? The private equity is aware of those same assets and they're gonna pay a multiple, far and above, above and beyond what I can ever pay, and I'm just not gonna go overextend myself.

So I decided, uh, to alter [00:09:00] my strategy. I said, you know what? Let me go down market. Focus on something that flies below the radar. Private equity, something too small, they're not even gonna waste your time on. So there's less competition down there, but it's gotta be large enough, have enough infrastructure in place that I can build, build something.

It can't be the man in a van. Hey, we've got an owner operator. He, he wants to retire and like two guys out in the field. Like that's way too small. So I gotta find that like middle ground. And I, I think I found that with Nolan Air. It's got like, just enough, it's got a good name. We just reached, uh, 5.0 star rating on Google, so Oh yeah.

It's got a good present. Yeah, we are at 4.9 now. We got bumped up to 5.0. So yeah, so I've got some big plans with it and so yeah, it's, it's a hair under 2 million top line, but I, I've got a pretty aggressive goal that why can't no one air be a $10 million company? I. In this market. I mean, I know it's possible.

Yeah. We're in a huge [00:10:00] market down here in the Tampa St. Pete area. Yeah. But I'm also running into a lot of competition. There's a lot of private equity guys down here too, so, and they're spending an insane amount. I. On a pay per click. So I gotta find creative ways, right, to deploy those marketing dollars to make that phone ring.

Jack Carr: I don't mean to laugh. Uh, it, it's a, it's a, a mutual pain. So Na Nashville's very similar. We don't, we don't play the pay per click game just because I'm not gonna pay $1,200 for a lead. Like, it's just, it's doesn't make any sense. Yeah. When a service lead for repair AC is 600 plus, there's not many things at a service level that actually cover that $600 lead only.

So we have to play with some very unique games to fight private equity, because, I mean, on a, right, on a three tier or a three vertical, if they do plumbing, electrical, hvac, they can lose a little bit on HVAC service, but they'll club 'em and then they'll gain it up over the lifetime of the customer. So there's some really interesting games you have to play to circumvent [00:11:00] that.

But, um, very, very similar, uh, beginnings. I mean, I was, I. Uh, little bit smaller than, than that starting, but sounds, uh, sounds like a similar journey. 

John Wilson: Yeah, we, um, how, how many people are in a $2 million company? 

Will Schryver: So right now we've actually hired since I, you know, since I acquired the company. So I, it's funny I said I wouldn't make a lot of changes the first 90 days.

Yeah. I've already made a ton of changes. Classic. It was so obvious. I said I, I have to make changes and so yeah. Mm-hmm. Today we've got, um, seven guys out in the field and we have one operations manager, which I know sounds very lean. Uh, but the one operations manager, he wears so many different hats. Um, I mean, the call comes in dispatch, uh, you name it, uh, dealing with the vendors.

He's doing it all. So what I'm. [00:12:00] Working on over time is, okay, we need a CSR. Mm-hmm. Right. And we need somebody dedicated to purchasing. So I'm working on that building process over time. Yeah, so that's, that's what I've got. Yeah. Seven guys on the field and then the one one operations manager. I don't, I don't count myself, but yeah, that's what we got right now.

John Wilson: One of the things that's helped our business grow the most has been peer groups, and that's been for both myself and our leaders, being able to talk to other companies about exactly how they've solved. The problems that I'm dealing with today has just been instrumental, whether it's how to acquire companies or how to add new locations, how to hire directors or service managers, or what should compensation look like.

All of those things are things that can be solved by just asking people a little bit ahead of me. Inside that group, we have Fireside Chats, weekly peer Conversations by business size resources to help you grow your business and a lot more. Make sure you check out owned and operated.com and click on Join Pro.

Jack Carr: And is that, does it, what the split, what does that look like in terms of techs to, um, [00:13:00] installers? And then are you running, uh, selling techs then? They're selling their own units? 

Will Schryver: So a lot of our guys are kind of hybrid, so our service guys can also flex and flip over to an install. So on the service side, I would say we've got, like, we have one lead called manager, a service manager.

Mm-hmm. And then below him we've got two guys. And then the, the balance about four guys on the, on the install side. So it's made, it's really made up of, on the install side, I'm thinking through it, two leads and two helpers. So like, we've got two young guys who they're very green, 21 years old. They, they're just trying to figure shit out, 

John Wilson: so, yeah.

Will Schryver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's, I, it, it's, it's a good crew. I mean, I would say 80% plus of the guys, I mean, they have a strong work ethic. I mean, they, they will grind, they don't mind work until nine, 10 o'clock at [00:14:00] night. Like that, that's not an issue. But the issue that I'm running into is, man, there are so many inefficiencies I, that was obvious to me day one.

Mm-hmm. They just sort of un and jack, I don't know if you saw this immediately, but they would just sort of figure it out. A call comes in, Hey, we gotta change out. Alright, let's run to, you know, we knew about a change out on Thursday. It's Tuesday. Let's go sit in line at supply house Thursday morning, pick up everything we need and we don't get it to the job site till 10 30, 11.

Mm-hmm. I mean, guys, what, what are we doing? Mm-hmm. Like we should, we should have already made that order, collected a deposit, pick that up, have it ready to go, at least by Wednesday, load it up in the van. So we roll up 8:00 AM begin our work on Thursday. That was a foreign concept to them. They just said, oh, never thought of that.

Yeah, 

John Wilson: we, one of the, uh, there's a phrase, I'm pretty sure Brent Beshore said it, but, uh, it was like, s small companies stay small on purpose, as in like, [00:15:00] that type of thing is something you expect to find. Because like, as you were saying, the first, the first sentence was like, there's so many inefficiencies.

And my brain immediately was like, well, yeah, that's why there were 2 million bucks. Like, if there weren't inefficiencies Yeah. They would, they would be 10 or like 15. Yeah. How, how old is the 

Jack Carr: company? 

Will Schryver: So no one started, uh, six years ago. Yeah. So that was another who 

John Wilson: knew? It's pretty new. 

Will Schryver: Yeah. No, yeah. It's, it's pretty new.

It's not like two, but it's not 30. I, I mean, what I was looking for is, you know, the classic example of a guy that, Hey, I've been doing this since 1982. Yep. I'm 72. I want to retire. I get it. Um, and it's sizable. It's a million plus of ebitda, like what everybody wants, no new construction, blah, blah, blah. You know, the drill.

It's like, well, I do know the drill. That, that's gonna cost a lot. And private equity's gonna be all over it. 

John Wilson: Yeah. So, 

Will Schryver: um, [00:16:00] so I landed on Nolan Air. I mean, all these deals, they have a little bit of hair on 'em. It's just, you gotta find the deal that has the least amount of hair on it. Yeah. And so it's a younger brand.

It's smaller, but I feel like it's enough to work with rather than like a a as a, as an example, there was a larger one I was looking at right down the street. He was about eight, seven and a half, 8 million top line. But half his business was new construction. I don't want to be in new construction for Yeah.

A number of reasons. It's not just a exit multiple that everyone talks about. So what I'm thinking about is, okay, if I go lean in on something like this, buy something where half the business I don't want. I'm gonna have to turn around a, you know, yeah. An aircraft carrier like that, that's gonna take a lot of work.

So do I wanna do that, step into that situation? Or do I, and so basically I'm scaling something large, bringing it down [00:17:00] to what I want, or do I take something small and scale it up? So I chose the latter. Yeah. Kinda where I'm at. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think it's like a resource thing. Um, most people, I think you're right for doing it that way.

I'm just gonna tell you what most people do, which is, uh, they go the other way and they get the larger company and then they try to pivot it, and it's just a nightmare. It's, it's just too much of a nightmare. But I think like the idea is, oh, I can use these resources, but if you're not in the trade and you don't understand the difference between a service guy or install guy and a new construction guy, like it's, you know, in your mind, you can pivot it, but, uh.

Yeah. So, so first 90 days, 60 days. 

Will Schryver: Yeah. We're, we're, we're within the first 90 days. 

John Wilson: Okay. Like, 

Will Schryver: of 

John Wilson: ownership. Do you like HVAC? What do you think? Will you just [00:18:00] jumped in the pool? Is it warm? 

Will Schryver: Oh, it's, it's, it's warm. All right. Um, no, I, no, I, I, I like it. I mean, there's so many ups and downs, I think. Yeah. With owning doesn't have to be our industry.

It could be anything. I mean, one day it's like cloud nine, you're like, mm-hmm. This is awesome. This is the greatest thing in the world. I'm so glad I left my W2, and then the very next day, it's like, it sucks. Yeah. Like, everyth, everything comes down. Yeah. Everything comes down on the owner. But I mean, it's just take it day by day, hour by hour.

Um, no, I, I don't have any regrets. It's just, um. It, it is an adjustment from where I came from. I went from investment banking. Yeah. Very white collar. I was gonna ask, I, I've managed people, I, I've managed a ton of people in, in the past, right. But managing white collar and now managing blue collar guys is very, very different.

Mm-hmm. And so if there's one thing I [00:19:00] underestimated, it was that, and it's not, I mean, they're good, they're good people. It's just, it's just different, right? Yeah. It's, you just need to alter your mindset and how you approach things. And I. There are different issues that arise on a random Wednesday that you didn't think you'd ex expect to come across.

Right. That I or I never saw in investment banking, so. Right. 

Jack Carr: I mean, I think that that's a really good note. And, and it was one of my big surprises as well, well, was moving from managing and white collar to managing and blue collar. I always had a foot in blue collar just because we were in, you know, operations and some facilities maintenance.

But it is an absolute night and day difference. I love it. But I definitely have heard from other owners who are in your position who don't like it as much. Um, so, but that transition overall has been pretty positive for you? 

Will Schryver: Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. I mean, I, I really, um, you know, I go outta my [00:20:00] way to take care of the guys, make sure they're happy.

Mm-hmm. But yeah, there are. Challenges that you just have to know going into it that's like, oh, this is very different than where the world that I left. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. And so as you move into these, these first 90 days, right? As a smaller business owner, you can hear trucks outside, sorry, but as a smaller business owner, right?

You have more on your back from all the positions from CSR to actually being out in the field potentially. Like where do you, as the owner draw the line on your skillset in being able to support the team? 

Will Schryver: Yeah, that's, that's a good question. So, uh, what I've quickly found is that as the owner, I mean, you're responsible for everything.

Uh, it's CSR, the phone rings, handling the customer marketing operations, updating the fleet, uh, you name it. Uh, dealing with the landlord, uh, employee issues like. Everything comes down to [00:21:00] you and you gotta make a thousand decisions every single day. Mm-hmm. Um, which I, I, I knew I kind of knew that going into that.

Like I, I, I understood that, but now I really understand that. Mm-hmm. Um, so where do I spend my time? What I'm working, I mean, we're very early on. It's not like I've been doing this for three years. So what I'm now, now that I have a grasp of no and error in the capabilities of each one of our guys, I'm trying to task them with what I think they're capable of doing.

So I saw, for example, my operations manager, he's wearing like six different hats. Well, that's not sustainable. If I want to take Nolan Air from 2 million of revenue to 10, it's impossible to do that. So I need resources, I need to add to the team. So what I'm currently working on right now, I. We need a CSR, uh, to handle, uh, after hours calls or weekend calls.

Like it can't be myself or my ops manager on call twenty [00:22:00] four seven to pick up the phone whenever it rings at nine o'clock at night 'cause it's 85 degrees in the house. Um, purchasing there was another big, um, bottleneck. Yeah. Every, every time we had to order equipment or materials, whatever it may be, it would go to the ops manager.

Everything went to go. He was the bottleneck. And there the, you cannot scale a company through one individual doing, wearing five, six different hats. So I have to add to the team. And so that's, that's what I'm working on right now is if I have a guy that, or a gal that governs, uh, CSR when the phone rings and dispatch and then I hone in on what we're doing with purchasing.

So that frees him up. To handle everything else. And so that's kind of what I'm tasked with. Uh, and, and, you know, immediately with our existing footprint of like, what do we have today? How can I improve it? And then like the next step is to say, okay, now let's go in growth mode. Yeah. [00:23:00] So once I have the team in place, definitely then I can think about, okay, strategically I would love to do either a greenfield or maybe we acquire a tuck in.

What, what about adding plumbing? I really like plumbing. Does that make sense? Or electrical? So plumbing's the best. Oh no, I, I mean, preaching the choir, I mean, it, there's margins are pH phenomenal. Mm-hmm. No seasonality to it. I, I like plumbing a lot. Yeah. But that's like chapter two. I'm still in chapter one.

Let's get like the basis right, so that we can launch off of this and get into something next. Whether that's adding plumbing or going into a second market. 

John Wilson: Yeah. Today, uh, what set this up, and I appreciate you sharing your story, what set this up is, um, tariffs. Now what was kind of funny is like 20 minutes before we got on today, I heard a bunch of these tariffs are gonna be delayed.

Will Schryver: Well, yeah, I was looking, I'm looking at my phone right now. Yeah, I, so I think a bunch of the [00:24:00] tariffs are gonna be delayed for 90 days, but I don't think that includes China. So Yeah, there's a lot of news, uh, yeah. Hitting the wires as we speak. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I feel like, um, what, what could be a good thing to riff on here?

Um, I think we've got some stuff on tariffs. I think we've got, uh, just like, you know, how do you run a bus, a business amid, amidst uncertainty? Um, and like, how do you think about making decisions? Obviously you're new to this and I, but I'm, I'm curious about tariffs. I'm curious how you're thinking about, you've got construction.

Going on in Nolan, which in my mind does expose you a little bit more because you have longer sales cycles and longer projects. So how are you guys thinking about this sort of rapid increase in pricing? 

Will Schryver: Yeah, it's a good question. Um, and it's, it's top of mind for me and it should be for every business owner.

Um, so we, we just got a price increase, uh, from [00:25:00] Daikin. So we're primarily a Daikin dealer, uh, on April 1st. So immediately what I did, I went into our price book and up updated our prices. So I, I'm not going to absorb that. We're immediately passing that on. I'm gonna maintain our margins. Yeah, that's outside of tariffs.

But what I've been told is, uh, we're, we are subject to further price adjustments based on tariffs. I don't know what that means. Could we get another 10%, 20% down the line? I don't know. We're sort of in, uh, limbo land. I just, we. We don't know, but once we, I'm assuming we receive a further price adjustment, I'm gonna react.

We, we have to adjust our own prices that we pass along to the customer. I mean, otherwise that's just gonna, um, uh, destroy our margins. And that's contractors out there who do not react. Yeah. As I described, a year from now are gonna be [00:26:00] outta business. Yeah. I mean, if, if these tariffs stay in place, I mean, what we're, every day it comes up, it's like 30% here, 50% there.

I mean, all of the goods that are coming into this country. Now costs 50% more. I promise you. Daikin, Trane, pick your supplier, they're all gonna pass that along to us. And if you don't pass that along, your margins are gonna deteriorate. And you're gonna see your profitability is gonna shrink very quickly and you're gonna be outta business in 12 months if you don't react.

So, yeah. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. This is a good question though. I mean, this is my question. You brought it up. 'cause this is what I, I thought as well for, for John and yourself is right. There's gonna be an interim though, where companies, especially companies with, uh, let's say less sales process, they don't have their financing dialed in.

So the only lever they have to pull to make the sale is price reduction. And so you have, uh, a short term a year, like you mentioned, where you're [00:27:00] competing against other companies, generally smaller companies who are having trouble making sales. And so they're, they're putting downward pressure on price.

What's your next move? 'cause that's what I'm worried about. 

Will Schryver: Yeah, I mean, I, I'll speak, I mean, you guys have been doing this longer than I have, but I, I explained to my guys, I don't want to compete with the man in a band or chuck in a truck as I refer to 'em, like the guys who are competing on price. Let them go win on price, right?

We we're gonna win on reliability and quality, and our customers should value that, but we need to demonstrate our value add and what that means. Uh, that may sound like a lot of fluff and maybe some customers are like, I don't really care. Just gimme the cheapest option possible. It's like, well then go talk to the man in the band down the street.

He, he, that guy will win for a period of time until he doesn't. So. I don't know that, that's just [00:28:00] how I view the world. Like, am am I wrong? Like, I don't know. How, what are you guys seeing in your market? I mean, I don't wanna, I, I don't wanna win over business because I was the lowest bidder. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. I mean, Chris Hoffman actually talks about this a lot, is we'd rather compete against other well, um, to do owners and other very, uh, high-end companies.

Because at the end of the day, we can never compete against truck. And the truck. Um, my my worry right is we've had these, these increases since 2022 between the C two changes. Yep. And the refrigerant changes. Like since 2022, since I took over my, my company, we've had like 14 or 15 increases feels like every month or every two months.

And so what we've seen in our market specifically, because we don't actually have a license for hvac, so anyone can go out and install an HVAC unit, can go buy equipment, blah, blah, blah. Um, that we see. Uh, excessive downward pressure in off months, um, in, you know, our, our shoulder systems. Yeah. Yeah. And so we, we [00:29:00] come, we've gotten really good at, at fighting this in the sense of, it's exactly what you said.

It's, it's, um, uh, we will drop margins to compete, but we don't drop to the point that they drop. And so for us it's a mixture of carrying, um, being cognizant about our expenses, about the price of equipment, working with distributors to get prices down in those off seasons. Um, not as much as John, but we, we try, we push 'cause we're like, Hey, I know this one guy up in Akron that's done it before.

Um, but we'll do that and then we will. Um, and then we, we work a lot on sales or, I mean, it's sales. We work on a lot on sales in our company. It's just, Hey, how do you drive full amount of value? How do you really Yeah. Come across as the professional in this aspect? Um, because that, like you said, that's the only way to win in the long term.

It's just, it's, it's another data point that, um. We have to go up against in the next year. 

Will Schryver: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, go ahead. Go ahead J go ahead. Well, [00:30:00] okay. I would just, I, you, um, j Jack, you reminded me of a, a recent, uh, sale that we just were awarded, and it was, it was huge for us. Um, there was a gentleman, and I posted about this on, on X, um, there was a gentleman in on, uh, Davis Island, which if you don't know the area, but that's like a high rent district in Tampa, like mm-hmm.

It's, it's, the house is, it's built like a hotel. It's beautiful, right on the water. Mm-hmm. Anyway, he is a massive system in there. Um, it's a Daikin VRV equipment, so it's, you know, cream of the crop, but he was plowing money into it every year. It wasn't under warranty and nobody would touch it. We came in, but we, we, we came in, looked at his situation.

We took multiple visits. I mean, we were, we were out there. Every other day for, you know, three, four weeks and gave him that white glove service that nobody else would spend the time and [00:31:00] energy and truly understand his issues and try to find a workaround. Like what can we do to solve this? This guy is a problem.

How do we solve it? Like we're in the business of problem solving problems. And so, Jack, to your point, I think if we can demonstrate that, I mean any, and he saw like what we were doing, we were going out of our way to stop by every week. And so when we finally said, this is our best recommendation, here's your problem.

We're offering you a solution, what do you think? And he said, okay, you guys have exhausted all other options. I agree with you. You're the doctor. You know what's best. Let's go. And that was $120,000 job that we start next week. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that, that's what I wanna, I wanna be in, I wanna be in that business.

I don't wanna compete with a $5,000 change out with man in a van. Yeah. So I'd rather do that, not this. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I [00:32:00] feel like, uh, I mean, I think everybody would, I think the, what we have found ends up being an advantage later on is that for while you're building, like you need to be able to take exactly the opinion you were taking.

I fully agree with it. And I don't know that there's ever a point where you should stop aiming to be premium at a certain point. Your ability to be flexible during a down season becomes a superpower. So I also don't want to compete with, uh, the one, you know, trucking the trucks, but. If that's, if their pricing is what's winning jobs.

When you have seven crews sitting in February, you start to think about it a little bit differently now during, during peak season. Absolutely. Uh, but you know, I'm, we talk about this a lot on the show where, hey, I like, we'll, we'll absolutely wheel and deal if it's March a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. [00:33:00] Like, we'll, we'll go, we'll go deep and fast because we really don't care.

Uh, and the part of the reason we don't care is because our business is built to do that. So we're, we're built to be a premium service provider, but be flexible enough in March that we can take a 30% clip and still be okay. And I think that that's the superpower and all, all the way up until last year, we couldn't say that.

Like if we took that discount, it was a direct hit to bottom line. But like we were taking 20% discounts all March and I still clipped in 11% ebitda. Yeah. Like we delivered. Nice. That's two on $2 million of revenue in a month. You know, there's a, there's enough there to, and we outgrew our overhead. So I think like, while you're on your way up, a hundred percent really hard to compete, but, and I, I actually got taught this lesson by a competitor who's bigger than us and they are, or they were bigger than us.

Yeah. But, uh, but they were bigger than us. [00:34:00] And, um, they, dude, the moment it hits March, they're doing like $3,000 air conditioners shit. And for the longest time I was like, I was like, I was like, holy shit. Like, what is going on? Yeah. My friend, somebody like, I can't do that. It was crazy. 'cause in my mind I was the same thing.

I was so locked in on like, dude, how do you do, how do you do that? But like, I don't know, about 3000. I mean, depending on the unit we could, but like, yeah, I can do that now. So it do, it does become a superpower. Yeah. Um, later on. So, so they sort of taught us that lesson. 'cause we, they were larger than us.

They're a premium service provider. They've always been priced higher than us. We might be higher than them now, but, uh, and they would consistently punch us in the face during slow season. Mm-hmm. So we, we got, we got served that lesson a few times from them. We finally learned 

Jack Carr: we have as well. And John, do you, do you, was that, and this is, [00:35:00] I mean, we did it through kind of, um, fluctuating commission structures and, and things like that.

Is that a big part of where that came from for you? 

John Wilson: Yeah, so we fluctuate commission structures, we, yeah, that makes sense. We go hard on like, very strict timeline price points. So like, hey, for these 45 days, uh, supplier, I need x additional rebate on this equipment, or I need x discount on this equipment.

Mm-hmm. Um, we'll keep moving your stuff. I'll keep our guys going. So usually we hit labor and cogs. Um, and then we really get very specific about what financing programs we're willing to offer. Yeah. Uh, 'cause that's like a secret, that's a secret eater. You know, like if you, if you aren't really watching your financing programs and you're offering 20% discount and you're still offering the one with an 8% dealer fee, like you're gonna lose, um, 0% for 

Jack Carr: 60, for 30% to you.

And if you eat that, yeah, you're in trouble. Yeah, yeah. No, you're in trouble. So we, 

John Wilson: yeah. So yeah, [00:36:00] we really watch financing plan, uh, make sure we negotiate, commission, make sure we negotiate equipment, so we go into every down season with those in mind. 

Jack Carr: And Will. So how has that process been for you? I'm, I'm very curious.

So right when I bought a business, I ran with the same distributor that the last owner ran with, who was completely selling me at like the most, the highest price possible. Even though I was buying like above, 

John Wilson: above retail, like above retail, some random guy walks into the building and he's like, buying it better than you.

Jack Carr: Yeah, exactly. It was, it was, it was pretty much that it was the same price as somebody who sold $2 in equipment and I was, I was selling $400,000 in equipment and I was getting the same price as them. So it's not about me. It's about you on this one. How has that process been? How are you going about like, vetting different distribution warehouses and making those contacts?

Will Schryver: Uh, or have you thought about it? It's, no, I, I have thought about it. I mean, I guess with, um, I'll just pick on [00:37:00] equipment, our largest expense. Mm-hmm. I, because I know so many guys in the industry, I will go and talk to them and I'll compare price books. And I know that's probably, you know, frowned upon, but I, I know a guy 90 minutes south of us, we don't compete.

He's like, great, Hey, hey, hey, pop off. Hey, we we're both kin dealers. What are you, what are you getting? And if, if I'm getting ripped off, I'm gonna call my rep immediately and say, excuse me, we need to talk. Yeah. Um, and it, it's, it's, it's good to know people because I can get pushed up high up into the food chain at Daikin or Carrier.

Mm-hmm. Like, I know the VPs that I could talk to and say, Hey, if I'm gonna switch from Daikin to carrier or what have you, I, I can use that as a leverage to beat up my rep, so to speak. Yeah. I don't wanna do that, but if I have to, but Jack, to answer your question, I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off based on the conversations with other dealers in my market.

I feel [00:38:00] like we're, we're okay. We're not great, but we're not getting ripped off. Yeah. So 

Jack Carr: yeah, I feel like we're in a decent spot. That's interesting. And so, so was the last owner Daikin, and then you just went with Daikin as well? 

Will Schryver: Yeah. 

Jack Carr: Okay. 

Will Schryver: Yeah, I, I, I, I didn't make any changes and with, with my, you know, previous background in banking, I, I covered this space and a lot of my clients were Daikin dealers themselves, so I was pretty familiar with the brand and I didn't see a need to switch.

Um, certainly not within the first 90 days like that, just to me crazy. Yeah. That's not my pressure on you. Yeah. More, more. So. I'm 

Jack Carr: just curious if you're starting to have those conversations. Um, because I didn't, like, so I, you know, I, I'm kind of the absolute worst example of somebody mm-hmm. Who probably should have, um, but just super naive coming into the industry.

Will Schryver: I mean, I. I, I, I, I'm aware of Trane and Carrier, and I know those are more household names, and so that's, you know, a [00:39:00] disadvantage to us. You know, maybe not everyone knows about Daikin. Um, so that might be a little bit of an uphill battle, although those are pricier brands. So I, I've gotta strike a balance.

I'm not saying I'll switch in a year, but feel pretty good with where we're at. 

Jack Carr: Yeah, I mean, my off the wall comment that I'll tell anybody is I don't think it matters other than Trane. And there's very few customers that specifically want Trane or they'll specifically want carrier. Everything else, it's the sales person.

It's the, the tech, the sales person. They don't care. They really don't. And, 

Will Schryver: and if we have a customer that we had one, um, he was doing a new build right on the beach and he said, no, I want train, only train. 

Jack Carr: Can't stop a train baby. 

Will Schryver: Can't stop a train. Can't stop it. So that's what we did. I mean, we, we'll sell train, just, we're primarily pushing Daikin 

Jack Carr: until there's a leak in the evaporator.

Cool. And you have to take the entire thing apart and condense our coil apart. To even get to the evaporator coil, it takes a day and a half to do. So, can't stop [00:40:00] it until that happens. 

John Wilson: Until you absolutely stopped it. Yeah. 

Jack Carr: Super bitter. You 

John Wilson: can 

Jack Carr: tell 

John Wilson: Jack what have, what have you done for like, managing material expense during, uh, uncertain tariffs and everything else going on?

Jack Carr: Me. Yeah. I mean, it's been the same thing. This has been kind of, for us, it's been there since the beginning, so I don't actually know any difference. Like the tariff thing has come out. We just watch for increases. I, I posted on, on Twitter yesterday or two days ago. Mm-hmm. I don't know a thing about tariffs.

I know how to fix units. I know how to run a business. Yeah. I don't know anything about tariffs or how they roll through. So all I focus on is am I gonna get a price increase or not? I mean, I'm sure there's some level that I could be more intelligent on this in pre-buying equipment and parts and things that I know are coming from certain companies or countries that are having these tariffs.

But realistically, at the end of the day, there's so much to focus on. My focus is, Hey, do I get a. Price increase. Great. That's getting [00:41:00] passed onto the customer. Our team has already been trained on, hey, how do we handle the increase, um, the price increase and focus on sales and focus on, um, uh, uh, how, what do you say?

Financing. Thank you. Focus on financing. We don't run zero for 60 anymore 'cause we're not gonna eat those costs. Yeah. So they have, we have our program set out, we have our scripts around those programs set out. Like it's just another day. Um, to be honest with you, I know that that may be not the most intelligent answer in the world, but, uh, you know, we've, we've just been focused from the beginning on how to deal with price increases.

Yeah. So we're living that life already. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I feel like the thing that we, um, some of the lessons we learned from 2022 when we were mm-hmm. Like we were still doing construction, uh, but like, hey, be really careful what's inside those contracts. So if you're doing, if you're, you know, before 2022. Price increases like this weren't like normal now [00:42:00] it feels like kind of normal.

But, um, that was wild. I remember it was like, it was a six or nine, it was somewhere between six and nine straight weeks Yep. Of copper wire price increases. And by the end of the, that time period wire was three times the price that it was when we started. It went from 30 bucks a roll to, to like 92. And our, our projects didn't include material price, escalations or ability to stop projects.

And we just got absolutely smoked. And then, um, you know, the more inflation became a thing, uh, we realized that like, hey, we didn't have price escalations. We didn't have estimated material. 'cause if it's a six or 12 month sales cycle, uh, like, Hey, I sold this today, but they're break, my, my, uh, section of it starts in six months.

What happens if there's a 10% tariff or. 30% tariff on that wire. Um, so like really [00:43:00] being careful what's inside the contracts. And then the other thing that's just been a win for us, and I'll encourage everybody to like figure out how they're gonna do it, is can your, can your overhead withstand a shock?

Will Schryver: Mm-hmm. 

John Wilson: Like, can is your cost structure. Mm-hmm. Uh, how variable is your entire p and l? Um, like, are your call centers on commissions? Are your managers, uh, heavily bonus based? Like, what does marketing look like? Is it locked in contracts or variable spend? What does fuel look like? Like how much of this can be variable?

How much, like of the a hundred line items in your p and l, what can you make modulate on demand? Um, and like can, what happens if you wi if you deal with a 30% punch to the face on cogs, like what do you do? 

Will Schryver: Like you have a plan. You, you bring up a really good point. One thing I used to do with my clients when I [00:44:00] was in investment banking is we would look at their p and l and we would break it up their cost structure.

Yeah. How much of that is variable? Yeah. How much of that is fixed? Because, you know why? I mean, well, a couple reasons why, exactly what you stated right there. If volume drops by X, what falls to the bottom line? Yeah. What do I need to cover every month, every quarter, just to cover overhead? Yeah. Everyone should know that.

Everyone should have a breakeven analysis to say, I need to do X amount of service calls per day, per week, per month. Xeno X number of change outs just to cover the bills. Um, yeah. And, and I mean, I did that in banking and I'm working on that right now with no one air. And I, I, I kind of know in my head like, all right, we gotta do about this, but I'm working on actually honing in.

Now we gotta make x dollars per day just to keep the lights on. Yeah, anything above that. I know it falls to the bottom line, 

Jack Carr: you know, when we our, if it makes you feel better. That took [00:45:00] me three years to even get close to that, that 

Will Schryver: number. 

Jack Carr: It's such a process, but, uh, took me, it takes a while. Yeah. John took even 

John Wilson: longer guys.

I'm the dumbest guy in the room. Um, but yeah, it took, took us eight. But the, the one thing that we did that was helpful in addition to that was we tracked against it every day. Uh, like, Hey, here's our breakeven point. Like the whole company knows when we hit breakeven and then we added debt to our breakeven.

So like, hey, if our debt load is 50 grand a month, then I add 50 grand a month to our OPEX budget to claim break even. So that would just be another helpful one. 'cause I feel like. It's important to know, like there's, you have two breakevens, right? You have paper break even and you have cash break even.

And those are two different things. Uh, so just like really over communicating. Um, hey, on paper we're profitable. I need x to break in to break even on [00:46:00] cash ash. 

Jack Carr: Yep. 

Will Schryver: That's a good point. You know, it's, it's funny because you bring this up and so many owners out there just operate. They're just like, they're winging it day to day.

Yeah. And nothing against Nolan, but I remember it was our, it was the second day after I closed and we were driving to a job site. We're gonna give an estimate. Pretty big. Yeah, pretty big job. Like 30 grand. Yeah. And I asked no one, I said, so what's profitability? What's the gross margin on this? It's like, uh, I don't know.

It's about this. I was like, how do I almost like stopped the truck? I said, how do you not know? Like almost to a penny. Mm-hmm. Or at least a dollar, like how much you're making on this 30,000 change out. He's like, well it's, it should be about this. And so almost immediately I developed a very simple calculator.

Yeah. Per change out. And it's a worksheet that I can share with my [00:47:00] ops manager or anybody else that's gonna give an estimate. I said, equipment, materials add in, sales tax. How many man hours are we talking? Yeah. We need a lead. We need a helper. Total man hours. Add payroll tax. 'cause they forgot about that in the past.

Yeah. And then here's my target margin. Like that's how you should think about bidding on, on, on an estimate. And ever since then, it's like a light bulb went off like, oh, wow. Never thought of it like this. I, I just, I would strongly encourage anybody out there that they should know their margins like. Down almost to the penny.

Yeah. Like you should, when you submit an estimate for 10 grand, you should know the company is gonna make X on that change out. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So that, that's one of those changes that I've, I talked about earlier at the top of the call. Like that was an immediate change that I made. Like day one it's like, yeah, no full stop.

I need to know just so I can sleep at night. What [00:48:00] is the company making? 

John Wilson: Yeah, 

Will Schryver: yeah, 

John Wilson: yeah. And then it's, uh, you know, how do you build a system around maximizing that? So maybe it's commissions that deescalate and escalate depending on profitability or, uh, manager bonuses. How are you thinking about that so far?

Will Schryver: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I, I failed to mention that. Um, so that includes commissions. Okay. So yeah, our guys get 5%. If they sell, they get 5%. Yeah, so that, so that, that is also baked into my, my gross profit that, that little calculator I was referring to. Yeah. That is baked in there and say, okay, well Joe sold it. He gets 5%.

Who's gonna install it? Here's the labor, here's the equipment and materials net to the company before overhead is, yeah. X 

John Wilson: what, what gross margin are you selling at right now? 

Jack Carr: Ooh, big questions John. Big questions. Yeah man. 

Will Schryver: Alright, call me out. [00:49:00] Um, so excited. Line in the sand is 40% on a change out where I would like to get to.

Over time, I want to get it to 45% plus. Now service is very different service. We're actually getting some pretty, pretty nice margins on. When I, when I put it all together on a consolidated basis, I would like our gross margins to blend it at 50% that like that. That's my goal. 50%. If we shoot north of that, we're doing great.

Historically, that has not been the case, so I've already made those adjustments and I'm already seeing a lift like day one on gross margin. Yeah, so I know 40% for an equal change out might seem light to probably you guys or some others. Chris, that's been doing it for a while. But I'm like building up to, you know, 45% plus, like that's the goal.

Yeah. I don't wanna rip the mandate off, lose a [00:50:00] deal, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, 

Jack Carr: and all those things are ra raised in the long term. As you start building those relationships and push down your price and lock in the systems, like that's where all that comes from in the long term. 40 is not a bad bottom line.

Like, we don't go below that number. I mean, that's where ours is. We, we've done one 37% in the last year and that job ended up being the worst job the last three months or four months. But it ended up being the worst job. 'cause you know, it's always the worst customers. Yep. When you, when you kill the last 3% and go bottom, bottom it out and cut everyone's commission and get, you know, ends up being just a shit show.

Um, yeah. And the customer's unhappy about one of the fins popping out or something like that and wants a full refund. So, you know, but 40%, that's where our bottom is as well. You know, we, we shoot for much, much higher. We start much higher, but 40% on the low side is not a bad number. It doesn't, I mean, in the long term, it doesn't leave a huge amount of room for, uh, growth initiatives.

But I mean, as a [00:51:00] $2 million company, the amount of expenses that you have on top line or expenses you have on bottom line to get there isn't huge. So. Um, so you can, you can eat a little bit more of that. Right? 

Will Schryver: So, so you, you, you just reminded me of something. So when I was in banking, I had a client, different industry still building products.

Um, they sold, uh, windows and doors and they just all organic. They just blew up. They were amazing. Mm. All organic. No m and a. And I recall he's, he categorized his, uh, customers as, a's Bs and Cs, CS C customers. The low margin. It's like, we'll do it. It just keeps the lights on like that. That's how he thought about the cs.

The BS obviously a step up. Beyond that, they're not. Stellar margins, but it's, it's a little bit more. And then the a's that's what we're targeting, we want more a customers because that finances growth. Like we want to go into a new market or we wanna acquire another [00:52:00] brand. It's the a customers that are gonna finance that.

And so, as I build No and air, that's how I think about the world. Like Jack, to your point, I'll dip below 40% for those C customers to pay the bills. Insurance is ripping my eyeballs out, rents to do every month. Like, you know, I, I, I've gotta cover the bills. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. 

Will Schryver: But I'm really focused on those A customers Yeah.

To help me get to the next market or add plumbing like that. So that's, that's how I categorize it. I don't know if you guys view the world in a similar lens or, or not, but that, that stuck out to me with that client years ago is a's, B's and C's. Is how you should think about your customers. 

Jack Carr: It, it's hard for me to, to, to do that.

And John, I mean, I'm, I'm gonna let you run on this one 'cause I'm actually interested what you have to say. Um, but we get this pushback from our technicians a lot. It's, Hey, I don't wanna run Thumbtack. Leads are low value, or, Hey, I don't wanna run this area 'cause it's low value. And I always, my, my pushback for [00:53:00] my entire team generally is, Hey, in our eyes, all the customers need to be the same.

They all get the same prices. Whether or not they're here or there, they all get the same service. Whether or not here or there, full evaluations here or there. It doesn't matter where the lead comes from, where the lead is, they're all gonna get the same experience. Um, I mean, I, I see the, the point from like an internal mindset standpoint, because we probably do do that when we talk about growth initiatives.

Like, Hey, we wanna move into this market because it has a very high average home value or whatever, or number of units on the house or or age of equipment or age of plumbing, but. In terms of from like the trickle down in, in how I look at working with my team personally, I try to stay away from that, that those kind of, um, denominations just because it gets you in trouble because then your, your technicians have a harder time selling because they don't, they don't go in with the same ideology if that Yeah, 

Will Schryver: yeah.

Sorry, I'll [00:54:00] just jump in real quick. Um, so Jack, would I describe the Ass Bs and Cs? I I would never let my selling techs know like, Hey, this is an A customer, or this is a bottom feeder C customer. Mm-hmm. I, I'm saying you're, that is like, what I'm doing is Yeah. Accept a lower margin. Just so I know, it's like, all right, fine, I'll do it because I know I need to pay insurance or rent.

Yeah, cover the bills. I guess I'm clarifying 

Jack Carr: to all the listeners out there, because sometimes if we're not super clear, like they'll, they'll run with something and be like, well, Jack told me to, to say that there's C customers. I'm like, no, please don't. 

Will Schryver: That's good. Yeah. Okay. That's a fair point. And, and 

Jack Carr: I've, I've put my foot in my mouth, in my own business personally more than I'd like, where I've told my technicians something where I've gone out in the field.

I said, oh man, it's really hard to sell this year. They only want to do, uh, re you know, repairs. Yeah, yeah. And then for the next six months, all my technicians come out and says, Jack, you're right, man. They only want to do repairs. And I'm like, no, I that. Yeah. So I'm, I'm just, I'm super cognizant about like [00:55:00] that, that mindset because um, sometimes it sets the stage Context.

Yeah. 

John Wilson: Yeah. It sets the stage. I mean, it preloads excuses. It's the same reason we don't like talking about, like, I. We're weather enhanced, not weather driven. You know, I think that, well, 

Jack Carr: you're doing the same thing there. 

John Wilson: It, it's a lot of like, hey, it's all, it's, it's all the same. We, we have a core customer.

Uh, so I think that's probably what you're trying to say. We have a core customer that like, yeah, that's, that's who we target. Uh, we will obviously take others, but like when we think about growth, when we think about zip codes we wanna be in, it's driven by an ICP, like, here's our ideal customer profile, here's who we're looking for, um, income.

You know, you build like a caricature of, of what you think your customer would be. Um, yep. That's usually how we do it. Yeah. So we, uh, so we covered, we covered a lot of good stuff here. So we covered first 90 days of ownership, some changes you made. We're talking pricing, some [00:56:00] material, uh, focus, checking on whether or not you're paying good stuff, types of projects you're getting.

Um, we did cover a little bit of tariffs. Main, mainly the lesson I took from this was like, let's be flexible, you know, be able to take a punch and, uh, raise prices as needed. That makes total sense. That resonates. Um, if you had any like, quick tips for anybody out there thinking about buying a home service company, like you're in your first 90 days, like what, what's it look like?

It's been a while since it's been my first 90 days.

Will Schryver: Yeah. Boy, where do I start? Um, I guess going into it eyes wide open. Um, you know, I knew a lot going into it just given my background, but mm-hmm. There's a lot I didn't know. You know, I, I know how to manage people. I, I, I knew about the industry and all that. Yeah. It's not like I went from, I don't know, uh, accounting and I've never [00:57:00] managed people before and I jumped into this like, so I had sort of a head start.

But I'm also sort of adjusting, you know, my, yeah, my management style, given it's a, it's a different environment. Like these are different guys. Different people, and so you just have to be flexible and, you know, take the punches as they come. So it's, I I, I, I mean it when I say you don't want to change too much the first 90 days, and I told myself I wouldn't, but there are some basic things that if you see it's glaringly obvious.

Like, yeah, this is fundamentally not right. Like the, the, the margin that we were talking about, how do you not know going into a $30,000 bid what your margin is like, that to me just doesn't seem right. 

Jack Carr: A hundred percent. 

Will Schryver: Yeah. Or like, here, here's another obvious one. So I, I made this change within the first week.

I said, what are our payment terms we go into, whether it's a service call, whether or [00:58:00] an equal change out. And they said, well, the customer will get to it when they get to it. I said, well, that's crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, our guys are paid every Friday and we have to pay our vendors every 30 days. Yeah. I, I can't, I'm not gonna float that.

So I immediately changed a day, almost day one, and I said, for a change out, it's 50% due upon your acceptance of our estimate. So we can order your equipment and put you on the, uh, secure your spot on the calendar. Yeah. Good. Mm-hmm. Once we have that, and then upon completion, the remaining 50% is due, and my guys looked at me like I told them to build a rocket to go to Mars and I said, they're like, no, we've never done this before.

It's not gonna work. Yeah. Customers gonna throw up all over this. I said, okay, go ask a roofer to change out your roof and see what they say. Go ask a window and door guy. Yeah. And see what he says. I guarantee you, they will not lift a finger unless you drop 50% as a deposit. I said, yeah, why are we [00:59:00] treated any differently?

Yep. So. As soon as I made that change, there was a lot of pushback internally, but now the guys see it and they're like, oh wow. There's no pushback. They the clicks. Yeah. 

John Wilson: Yeah, 

Will Schryver: yeah. So, um, there are things like that, that you can change. Yeah. But I wouldn't go like Jack, like we were talking about before, like do you switch from a dike and a carrier?

Like no, no, I, I wouldn't do that type of change. But there are certain things that you can, certain levers that you can pull day one. Um, but, uh, beyond little things like it's not little, but things like that, I wouldn't, uh, be too disruptive the first 90 days. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. That's really good advice. 'cause I, I fully agree with that statement is I've Rich actually, and Jordan and I had this conversation pretty long ago for, for a decent amount of time and.

Change the obvious things. Don't, don't sit on stuff that doesn't make sense. And that's, yeah. Ridiculous. Just because somebody arbitrarily told you on the [01:00:00] internet, don't change anything. Yeah. Go in and change things and go, that need to be changed, that are obvious. And then on the non-obvious things, definitely sit it out and say, Hey, I'm gonna learn first.

Like, Hey, why should I not switch to Daikin or from Daikin because I don't know. And I, I think that you're handling that, you know, absolutely perfectly because that, that drives me up a wall. 

Will Schryver: Yeah. Hundred percent. And like, same thing. Um, so right now, uh, we're on house Call Pro. I know we need to get to ServiceTitan, like I know it has all the bells and whistles, but am I gonna do that?

It's mid-April. Am I gonna do that as we head into the busy season? Hell no. That's crazy. My team is gonna be maxed out. I'm gonna do that on the back end in December when it slows down and we have, you know, we can catch our breath. Yeah. That's another good example of, I know it needs to be done, but I'm not gonna do it for the obvious reasons.

Right. That'll come with time. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I think, uh, I'm adding a little bit more perspective. Um, [01:01:00] the small, like, the common advice is don't change anything. And I think that makes sense. If, if I was buying like a 5 million EBITDA business, that advice makes perfect sense. Even like one to 2 million ebitda. Like that makes total sense.

They are doing something that you shouldn't disrupt. Maybe my personal opinion here, but if a company is doing one to $2 million or $3 million a year in revenue, like there are big things that are broken, and if they weren't broken, it would be doing more than one, two, $3 million of revenue. So I feel like the, I feel like make a mess in a small company is like, that's my perspective.

Just because if it's a small company, that means it's broken. If it wasn't broken, it would be big. Uh, so to me it's just like, yeah, make a mess. Like pop off. Uh, yeah, I mean, like, obviously you don't wanna lose people, but I think the, the [01:02:00] don't ch don't make big changes. Only make sense when you're talking about like turning a cruise ship.

But if you still have a rowboat turn, 

Jack Carr: who You call it a jet boat? 

John Wilson: Like a jet ski. Like a jet ski. 

John? 

Jack Carr: Yeah. Give us a little, give me and, and will here a little bit more credit than 

John Wilson: that. Like a, like a No one airs 

Jack Carr: a jet ski. Got it. 

John Wilson: Like a, like a wave. Yeah. I'll think Jet ski, ski whiner. Dunno. I feel a little bit 

Jack Carr: more respectful than a rowboat, so.

Yeah, I think so. It's got some speed to it. 

John Wilson: It's got something. Yeah. Brandon, Brandon calls him rowboats. I'll, I'll correct him on that. I'll be like, gotta call Jesse's now, dude, I dunno what to tell you. This, uh, this was, 

Will Schryver: no, I just, John, to your point, I mean that's, I mean, I, I love it. I, I think, uh, I'll just speak for myself, but I think from where you sit and you knowing what, you know, you'd be comfortable doing that.

But I also think that a guys who are going from a W2 corporate nine to five Yeah. First time, that might be [01:03:00] pretty scary, you know? Yeah. To come in. I, like, I know a guy right down the street, he's closing on his first business, uh, next month. Yeah. Nice. And I told, you know, and I told, and you probably know him, but I told him.

Don't, don't change a lot, but I think change the obvious. Yeah. But, but, but you, like, you've been, you've been living it for years, so you'd probably comfortable like going in there and just break shit. Like, hey, let's, yeah, I think I know what needs to be known. Let's do it. Let's do it now. 

John Wilson: I, I think there's definitely a component of that, but I, I was just more like reinforcing the, your point of like, Hey, let's change the obvious.

Like if it's obviously broken, like there's nothing to wait on, like you're good to go. Oh yeah. Like the payment terms. 

Will Schryver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's obvious. Yeah. Like that should be done immediately. 

John Wilson: Yeah. A hundred, a hundred percent. Uh, this was good man. This was a lot of fun. I appreciate, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and, and talking about it.

If, if people can, uh, wanna connect with you, how can they find you? 

Will Schryver: Uh, well obviously I'm on [01:04:00] X so they can find me there, LinkedIn, uh, or they can email me. I mean, I'm pretty open, you know, I don't have a, uh, a redacted account or anything, or anonymous account so they can, they know how to find me. 

John Wilson: Easy to find.

Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on today. This was a bunch of fun. Will. 

Will Schryver: Well, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. 

John Wilson: If you like what you heard, check out own and operated.com. Make sure you hit subscribe below and like the video for more.