The Ultimate Home Service Trivia Show (What Homeowners Really Think)

In this episode, John Wilson and Brandon Niro are joined by Zac Dearing from Mantel for a fast-paced, trivia-style breakdown of what homeowners actually want when buying HVAC and home services in 2025. Mantel just surveyed 500+ homeowners nationwide, and instead of guessing in the dark like most of the industry, we put real customer data on the board. John and Brandon compete to predict homeowner behavior — how many contractors people call, where they find you, what earns trust, how pricing impacts decisions, and what parts of the sales process truly move the needle.

The results are a gut-check for any contractor, operator, or sales leader. Homeowners are still overwhelmingly finding contractors through Google and repeat relationships, AI search is basically nonexistent (despite all the noise), and reviews dominate how people assess quality. Even more interesting: millennials and baby boomers shop very differently, and the “price objection” narrative isn’t as universal as we treat it in training. If you’re trying to improve close rate, tighten your sales process, build real trust in the home, or decide how transparent to be with pricing and warranties, this episode is stacked with insights you can act on immediately.

What You’ll Learn

• How many contractors homeowners contact before choosing one
  
  
  
• The real top channels homeowners use to find contractors in 2025
  
  
  
• Why AI search (ChatGPT/Perplexity/Claude) isn’t driving discovery yet
  
  
  

🎙️ Hosts & Guest

 Host
 John Wilson

Co-Host
Brandon Niro

 Guest
 Zac Dearing

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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Game Setup
• 1:00 Trivia Game Begins
• 24:36 Understanding Homeowner Priorities in HVAC
• 31:04 Final Thoughts and Surprising Insights
• 42:33 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

OAO 263

Zac Dearing: [00:00:00] Gentlemen, I can assure you that the questions that are being asked today have been rigorously researched and that we've designed a game to really test your medal. This is rigged. It is back to John. 

Brandon Niro: Oh, there you go. 

Zac Dearing: That is not correct. 

John Wilson: Damn 

Zac Dearing: God. There was a lot of squirming on this answer. A lot of, mm-hmm.

Thinking and unfortunately it didn't matter. It is not o again. Shit. 

Brandon Niro: That's interesting. 

Zac Dearing: That's a good question. Games rigged. Uh, what surprised you the most of everything today?

John Wilson: Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today we have a special show. It should be a ton of fun, mainly because I'm going to win today on the show I have my partner in crime, Brandon Niro and Zach Deering from Mantle. And what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna be doing a trivia game show. That is Brandon and I basically competing for swag.

And we're gonna be guessing homeowner responses to things on the [00:01:00] contractor experience and a bunch more. Mantle is an AI sales platform that helps contractors delight customers and close deals. So they just started doing an annual homeowner survey where they've surveyed over 500 homeowners all around the US on their experience, why they bought, why they didn't buy into a bunch more.

So we're basically gonna use that data and Brandon and I are going to guess at what we think a homeowner wants. And, uh, we'll see what happens And Brandon's gonna absolutely lose. 

Zac Dearing: Gentlemen, I can assure you that the questions that are being asked today have been rigorously researched and that we've designed a game to really test your medal.

The format of this game is we will go one person, then the other person we will ask them a question. If they get it right, they will. Point, if they get it wrong, it will go to the other person. The final question we have and a bit of a twist on what the format will be, and ultimately what are they competing for?

They're competing for eternal glory and of course this impressive piece of swag. So gentlemen, we will start [00:02:00] with Brandon. Two rounded number. How many contractors do homeowners reach out to when they are shopping for a home service? 

Brandon Niro: Four. 

Zac Dearing: Four. Okay. Brandon's answer is four is not correct. John, this is your first deal to a rounded number.

To a rounded number two. John has won the first point. It is 2.1. 

Brandon Niro: All right, let's 

John Wilson: go. Nice. Nice. Who reaches out to four? Who has time for that? I don't know, man. 

Zac Dearing: You know, it's a tough, tough economy out there. People are making sure they get their best deal possible. Our 

Brandon Niro: OP says we have to reach out to at least three, so, yeah.

Yeah.

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Zac Dearing: So now here's the question though. So they reach out to 2.1 and John, this will start with you to round an answer. What percentage of homeowners never receive any quotes from any of the contractors? They reach out to 40.

40% never receive any quotes from any contractors. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Is that your final answer? 

John Wilson: That is my final answer. 

Zac Dearing: Okay. Uh, that is not the case. Well, the number is surprising. It is not that, Brandon, this is your first deal. You can get back in the game now. I know. 

Brandon Niro: 20. 

Zac Dearing: 20% gentlemen, uh, no points will be awarded. It's [00:04:00] 2.5%.

Brandon Niro: That's it. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah, that's it. I mean, think about it. They're reaching out to contractors and they're looking for quotes. 

Brandon Niro: Honestly, just assume most contractors are horrible at following up. Well, maybe, but again, 

Zac Dearing: that's the reason why they're reaching out to two. Right? Because like one of 'em ultimately delivers it.

It's received no quotes. We also looked at this by different age ranges, right? Yeah. We hear a lot about the boomers and about the millennials and whatnot. And so on average, are millennials likely to reach out to more. Or less than that. 2.10, 

Brandon Niro: that's a 50 50 shot. 

Zac Dearing: That is true. That is 

Brandon Niro: crap. 50 50 shot. Uh, I'm gonna say less.

Well, John it is not less. Yeah. Oh, come on. 

Zac Dearing: This is rigged. It is. It is more, uh, they reach out to 0.2 more than, uh, their, uh, non-millennial counterparts, 

John Wilson: so I would've guessed more regardless. I am surprised that it's that close. Yeah. Um, millennials, like with the advent of YouTube, I feel like millennials have become a much more like [00:05:00] research heavy.

Like they're gonna look more than a boomer is just like they have their guy, 

Brandon Niro: I guess I'm thinking of even younger than. Millennial to like new, new homeowners who are just like the intention spans, like, uh, time commitment would be so much less. Yeah. I mean, 

John Wilson: that's me. Like I don't have the patience to deal with.

Like, it took me, uh, and this is back to the what percentage never receive a quote. It took us like nine months to start our kitchen remodel because I don't have the patience to reach out to a ton of contractors and I didn't get a bunch of quotes. 

Zac Dearing: I think one of the interesting things about, to your point.

Millennials could be doing a ton of research. Yeah. Looking on YouTube, reading reviews, searching Claude or perplexity, but then only calling a little bit more Yeah. Than what they're 

John Wilson: Yeah. I'm, I'm really surprised that it's that close. I would've thought like three to four. For millennials, just 'cause they're like digitally native.

Zac Dearing: Yeah. You know? Yeah. 

John Wilson: They're gonna reach out to more, they're gonna fire off a million texts through LSA or something. That's interesting. I'm surprised how close that [00:06:00] is. 

Zac Dearing: So, next question. I think this will be near and dear to both of y'all's heart. John gets the start. Um, John, uh, I'm gonna read out four potential channels by which a homeowner could find out about a contractor.

And your question is, what is the most popular channel? So first. Google. Google Search. Google Maps. Second AI search. Perplexity Claw Chat, GPT. Third, recommendations from Friends and Neighbors. Fourth, they previously used the contractor across all 500 homeowners. Which one is the most popular overall previous use?

G Use. It's not correct. 

Brandon Niro: Damn. 

Zac Dearing: Brandon, 

Brandon Niro: does Google Gemini count as an AI or Google? 

Zac Dearing: Good question. We will not specify. I'm gonna say ai. Uh, it is not AI search. 

John Wilson: I feel like it was Rex then. 'cause I feel like it was either gonna be previous use or recommendations. Okay. Well it's actually Google. 

Brandon Niro: Really, 

Zac Dearing: I'm a default.

I get 

Brandon Niro: the 0.1. 

Zac Dearing: It is Google. Truly, [00:07:00] they guessed everything and eventually Brandon ended up with the point. So Google at uh, 39%. Previously used at 33, 30 4%. Um, I wasn't 

John Wilson: that far off. Then 

Zac Dearing: Rex at 25%. And to be clear, homeowners could indicate multiple channels. So yeah. Yeah. Anyone following the log at home, and I'm sure our audience is eagerly, eagerly, they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hold on. No, no, no. There's no hanging chats here. We verified. But now AI search. This will actually be the next question. How commonly are folks using AI search? We hear a lot about it in the news, right? Yeah. Attach. BT is taking over the world. Oh boy. Google's better watch out. Like, oh, all the coolest contractors are using AI search.

John Wilson: This is like a percentage, 

Zac Dearing: percentage of homeowners who were verified shoppers in 2025 who used AI search, and I believe, and it'll be a percentage rounded number. It'll start with B dog. 

Brandon Niro: Hmm[00:08:00] 

Hmm. I'm gonna second guess. I feel, I'm gonna second guess myself, but I'm gonna stick with my original gut intention on that one and say 35%. 

Zac Dearing: 35%. So one in three Google was at 39%. And your answer is that 35%. That is not correct, John, like six, 6%. That is also not correct. The actual answer is 3%. 

John Wilson: Yeah, I, I felt like it was single digits.

That's that. I wonder at what point they're using it. Like in the discovery process? In the review process. I, I read something, um, maybe like a month or two ago that like people were using AI almost like a recommendation replacement. Like, Hey, could you just gimme a couple options in Cleveland? And then they were verifying on Google and using that to call.

Brandon Niro: Yeah, 

John Wilson: it'll be interesting to see how, when that ever gets tight. I think something that's been interesting with AI over the like ca past couple months is like. One, people are getting like AI fatigue. Uh, I don't know if that's general public, but definitely like the people in my life, [00:09:00] it's like very AI fatigue and then two AI distrust because like half the time the answers are like, made up.

Totally. Yeah. So I, I feel like, uh, it almost went through this mass adoption. Yeah. And then like. Decent chunk of on dis adoption. On adoption. 

Zac Dearing: The, the Valley of Disillusionment. Yeah. Very sort of famous chart. Yes. Of new technology adoption and there's a lot of buzz and everyone tries it. And on the first couple minutes, like, oh my gosh, it totally knew that Wilson was legit in the greater Akron area.

And then it said that Wilson also did garage doors. Not saying that it was actually true, but that, that, that's the example. And so I think what's interesting, and this is where we're gonna dive a little bit deeper, baby boomers specifically. 

Brandon Niro: Ooh, 

Zac Dearing: what is there? Number one channel. Again, options. Google AI search recommendations.

Previously used contractor 

John Wilson: on one hand, like I think it probably would be Google because that was the highest regardless. On the other hand, I don't think you'd be asking the question if it was the same. [00:10:00] This is, uh, this reminds me a lot of like Princess Bride when they're like deciding which cup has poison in it.

Brandon Niro: Totally. 

John Wilson: Um, it'd pre, it'd be either like previously used or Google, uh, I guess Google. 

Zac Dearing: That is not correct, 

Brandon Niro: so I'm gonna go with previously used. 

Zac Dearing: Brandon gets his second point of the day previously used. 

Brandon Niro: You're welcome. 

Zac Dearing: One other just fun fact and I'll share it. Millennials. 62% said Google. 

John Wilson: Wow. 

Zac Dearing: Interesting.

Yeah. So they are very much looking at Google. 4.6% said AI search. 

John Wilson: Well, to me that makes sense. Like if I just think about generations like millennials just haven't used contractors yet, so they're still in that discovery, whereas boomers. Yeah. Like they have their guy, like it's in their phone, you know?

Totally. So to me that makes total sense. 

Zac Dearing: Boomers are at 23%. Right. What would be interesting to look at, like correlated, we didn't run the data this way, but maybe for, for, for the next one, is look at like number of homes you've owned and Right. I imagine that yes. It's probably more correlated to number of homes you own than your age, even though [00:11:00] they're both related.

Last thing, big box store. So one of the questions was, hey, we often hear in contractor world about, oh, the Home Depot P program. The Lowe's program. Yeah, the Costco program. So we asked what percentage. Heard about it from a big box store. Is it your, I believe it starts with B Dog. 

Brandon Niro: All right. B dog. I'm getting all the off a wall.

John Wilson: Oh, I just, and I'm gonna ask you last point. It's 

Zac Dearing: either this or this. 

John Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Come on. Get outta here. The 

Zac Dearing: percentage is interesting, but I will share that at the end. But I'm gonna ask you, who is more likely to shop at a big box store in this case, who's more likely to discover their contractor at a big box store?

Millennials or baby boomers? 

Brandon Niro: I'm gonna stereotype for a moment. I feel like millennials would be less willing to stop. Talk to somebody and a baby boomer. Hmm. So I'm gonna say baby boomer. 

Zac Dearing: Okay. Well, in this case, John gets the point. It is in fact, millennials, but here's where the numbers become interesting.

John Wilson: That's actually, I'm really glad that you got that wrong. 'cause I would've definitely guessed that. I feel like baby boomers are very trusting. And millennials are like not. 

Brandon Niro: I'm just imagining every millennial ever walking past a guy on their phone, not paying [00:12:00] attention. Oh yeah. And like the baby boomers wanting to stop and argue.

Zac Dearing: Yeah. And being, and millennials. As a millennial, being intimidated by this idea of like face-to-face interaction. Be like, wait, we could talk to people in real life. Yeah. 1% overall. Say that they discovered it at big box stores. 1%. 1% baby boomers at a whopping 0.0%, and millennials at 3.45%. So millennials are higher than baby boomers.

Yeah. That must that, but the numbers are diminishingly small. 

John Wilson: That must be back to like. I've only owned one home. I haven't worked with an HVAC before. Sure. I go to Home Depot, not even realize I'm in discovery mode of like, who is my contractor. I think what a lot of this is confirming for me, like 70% of our business is repeat.

Business, like it's organic and, uh, but also like a huge proportion of our customer base is boomers. 

Brandon Niro: Yeah. Uh, I you gotta imagine the, the younger generations too. How many go to a big box store versus just order online? Like do they even have the opportunity to interact in the first place on that [00:13:00] stuff?

Like, as far as just how low the numbers are in the first place? Right. 

Zac Dearing: Sure. So contractors now in the home, what are the most popular way for homeowners to assess the quality of the contractor? So they're trying to figure out, it's like I now know of this contractor 'cause I went to Google or I looked him up on Claude, or I saw on Next Door in the case of a Boomer, 'cause I previously used it.

And now the question is, what is the most popular way to assess quality? There are four choices, and I believe this will start with John with me. Yeah. John's always very quick to know when it starts with him. When it's Brandon. It's a little wishy watch. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brandon Niro: The opportunity. I know where we're at. I know where we're 

Zac Dearing: at.

Four choices are, looked up online reviews, spoke with family, friends, or neighbors. Saw examples of past work relied on their own prior experience. 

John Wilson: Alright, so reviews, not recommendations, but like mm-hmm. Neighbors, friends. 

Zac Dearing: I mean, could be family, right? It says the language is literally spoke with friends, family, or neighbors.

So could be recommendations, 

John Wilson: I guess. I'd go reviews. Like it feels like [00:14:00] it. 

Zac Dearing: That is correct. Let's go. Let's go. Aw. Brandon though, I will give you a choice. What do you think is number two? 

John Wilson: Ooh. Chance to redeem himself. Number two. You said reviews is number reviews. I wrote Rex, but this was like family neighbors not trying to help you, but you know, just trying to lead you astray actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So I'm gonna say past 

Brandon Niro: work 

John Wilson: then, and that's like past work is like pictures. Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Wait. Saw examples of past work or relied on my own prior experience with them. Saw examples. Okay. Despite me and John's N Sheet, you still didn't take them lot. So it's relied on their prior experience with them all.

52% say looked up online reviews. Yeah. Then relied on prior experience. Then Rex, friends, family, neighbors. Wow. Saw examples of past work. 8%. 

Brandon Niro: I was just trying to lean into your stuff, you know? 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Fair. Fair. I do think it's interesting given how much conversation our industry is about, hey, put the yard sign in place.

Yeah. And yet it's only 8%, which [00:15:00] I'd be curious, Brandon, to get your take on it. Is that a reflection that very few people do it despite us talking about it and it's really like a valuable, or is it a total waste of time and we should never focus on putting yard sides in? 

Brandon Niro: I guess. I don't know. Now, I don't know.

That's, uh. That was the old tricks, right? Landscaping. That's what everybody always used to do, but that's also like very obvious. Yeah. 

John Wilson: Yeah. I mean, reviews seem to, reviews make sense? Mm-hmm. Like we're in discovery mode. It's like recommendations at scale. Yeah. Is how I think of reviews. Like I can ask my mom or I can read 5,000 people's opinions.

The, the photos of password or that, that type of thing or like that, that is interesting. 

Brandon Niro: Yeah. I assume that would be higher just off of like the stereotypical value build process, right? Yeah. Um. Trust but verify. So then you're going through the whole Yeah. Value build experience with a homeowner. 

Zac Dearing: But realistically, how often do you think that value build process actually happens?

Fair. One of the ways to think about this is, uh, looked up reviews online [00:16:00] largely the homeowner just has to take an action, right? Mm-hmm. Saw examples of past work, they then have to have access to those examples of past work, right? 

John Wilson: Well, it's quick and easy. Like if someone was looking up us. Wilson Plumbing.

Okay. 4,200 reviews on A GMB, 4.8 stars. Like directionally, that's enough information to move forward. 

Jack Carr: Yeah. 

John Wilson: Like I, if it, if I was the buyer, I don't think I would need much more than that. Mm-hmm. I'd be like, all right, 4,200 people. 4.8 stars. A hundred people had a terrible experience, and 4,100 had a pretty good one.

Like odds are in my favor. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. 

John Wilson: Pretty good one. Like odds are in my favor. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. So we're gonna start talking about, you know, topic very in vogue online. Pricing. 

Brandon Niro: Ooh. 

Zac Dearing: I know. It's something that Wilson feels strongly about. 

Brandon Niro: Ooh. 

Zac Dearing: So what percentages of homeowners looked online or attempted to look online for pricing?

You're up, dog. We're gonna start this percentage. No, there there was a steal. It's, it's back to 

John Wilson: [00:17:00] job. Oh, there you go. This is, okay. So what percentage have attempted to look up pricing online? 

Zac Dearing: Yes. And we're gonna go overall and we'll give you within five percentage points. 

John Wilson: I get rounded within five. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Or if you gimme a specific number and if it's within five for the actual answer, you will get the point.

To me, it has to be like a ridiculous majority. Okay. Uh, I don't know what number that means. So we will ask for a specific number. 

John Wilson: I was, I was hoping you'd be like point, 

Zac Dearing: um, did you bead.dot if so did Yeah. 80, 80%. Yeah. That is not within the five point buffer. Brandon, your unity to steal. 60%. 60%. Also not within the five point buffer, so no points will be awarded 69%.

John Wilson: I mean, to me that makes sense. I, I would, obviously, I guessed 80, I would've expected, like if we were wrong, I would've thought 90, because anytime anyone's going to do any project of any type. [00:18:00] They're Googling price per square foot. They're like reading shit on Angie's, you know, they're, yeah. Yeah. Angie's, you know, they're, yeah.

Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Well, let's talk about that and drill in a little bit deeper. He said, anytime, anybody, so we have numbers for millennials and baby boomers specifically. Oh, shit. You're up, you're so Brandon. This game's rigged. Uh, we won't ask you which direction. Higher and lower. Uh, that is pretty self-evident. Baby boomers.

What's the percentage within five? 

Brandon Niro: 70. 

Zac Dearing: So you think baby boomers are at average? 

Brandon Niro: I 

Zac Dearing: think so. Which means that the other demographics would also be at average, 

Brandon Niro: I guess I'm think like maybe I'm ask skew on that one. I'm thinking of my parents and then like my age group. Right. And like they both collectively I seem math the same.

How they act once they're on site's different. But I don't know. Okay. Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Interesting. Um, John Steel opportunity 60, 57%. So John gets it. 

John Wilson: Let's go. 

Zac Dearing: So 

John Wilson: it's nice across that five point mark. Yeah, that's, 

Zac Dearing: that's [00:19:00] baby boom. Boomers are at 57% overall. 69%. Brandon, we'll give you one more shot. Millennials, I'm 

Brandon Niro: striking out here.

Zac Dearing: What, what, what, what, what percentage? 

Brandon Niro: 80% then. 

Zac Dearing: Okay. Brandon Kat said 83%. So when you said everybody earlier. I think most everybody. Mm-hmm. Our age does look online. 

Brandon Niro: Mm-hmm. 

Zac Dearing: Our parents' age, it's really only 57%. What's also interesting is, if you remember from earlier, they're also commonly using someone they previously used.

Yeah. Or going on a recommendation. Right. So is price as relevant if you've used Dan, do you need 

John Wilson: me to, do you need me to mark this for you? Keeping score. 

Zac Dearing: Alright. So a lot of people look online for pricing. Yeah. So there's the intent there. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: How clear was the pricing that was found online? Oh my God.

What percentage said Very clear, and I think it starts with John within five points, 

John Wilson: unfortunately within five points. All right, so the pricing percent, the pricing they found was very clear. [00:20:00] 9%. 

Zac Dearing: 9% is not within 5% of the actual answer. 

John Wilson: It's even 

Brandon Niro: lower than that.

Like I have never found pricing to be very, I know, I'm gonna say 5%, then 

Zac Dearing: it's 15%. It's slightly more optimistic than either of you expected. Interesting. So 15% said it was very clear. What percentage do, you said it gave them a rough idea. Oh yeah. There'll be no points awarded, but. 

John Wilson: 60%. Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: 46%. Yeah. And then the remainder, so nearly as many said not clear at all.

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Does that surprise y'all? 

John Wilson: No. I mean, that's how I feel. I would be in the, not clear at all. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. 

John Wilson: Like, you know, anytime I've looked at, I, I don't even know if I look, uh, for pricing. Anymore just 'cause it's so like, hey, the tile could be $10 a foot or $200 a foot. And it's like, well that wasn't fucking helpful at all.

Like, I have no idea. Sure. Um, I 

Brandon Niro: feels that starting at [00:21:00] it's just like, yeah, 

John Wilson: yeah. It doesn't do me any 

Brandon Niro: good. 

John Wilson: Yep. Yeah. Yep. I think we've done a good job. Like our pricing is pretty out there and transparent, but, uh. You do have to go through like some gyrations, you have to put in some information. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think what's really interesting is there's clearly intent and the market hasn't yet met that intent. Right. In the sense of a lot of homeowners are looking. Yeah. They are seeing a lot of things. One of the things we didn't even talk about was the percentage of homeowners that said they just like couldn't find pricing at all that they were looking for, and they just like couldn't find it at all.

Yeah. Um, how much was that? I believe it was around 20%. 

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Zac Dearing: This question, I feel like is the most classic homeowner survey question, which is, which factors?

Most important to you Upfront Cost. Reputation of the contractor system, comfort, efficiency or utility bill savings, manufacturer or brand of equipment and perceived installation quality. 

Brandon Niro: Hmm. 

Zac Dearing: System Comfort. There's a lot of squirming on this answer. A lot of, mm-hmm. A lot of thinking. The brain power devoted to it.

It was very palpable in the room. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately it didn't matter. It is not, it is not system comfort, 

John Wilson: like I think it's upfront cost. I mean, that's the biggest objection. I wish it wasn't, but it 

Zac Dearing: is in fact upfront cost. 

John Wilson: Yeah. With that said, I think we want the other stuff. 'cause when we walk in the house, if I'm just thinking about the objection.

Mm-hmm. The objection is always what's the cost? And we [00:23:00] have to educate on all the rest of this. Why do you, why should you care about this manufacturer? People don't think about installation quality, like they just don't. Like maybe one in 10 actually brings it up. Savings, maybe system comfort, maybe reputation, maybe it's like all of that stuff is like baked into the sales presentation so that we can sell the job.

But the thing that's on the homeowner's mind. Is the dollars. Whether or not we want it to be just is everything else. We have to teach 'em 

Zac Dearing: 31% of the time. Homeowners put it as their number one thing. What is the number two reason? 

John Wilson: I think I'm gonna almost like rank it backwards. I think that installation quality is six.

Who knows if I'm right? I think system Comfort is like five because we have to teach people how comfort works. Mm-hmm. Like I think manufacture. Is four. So yeah, I think savings and efficiency would be second. 

Zac Dearing: Okay. That is not the case. Brandon. Steel opportunity. This could do a lot for your point. Score. Do a 

John Wilson: lot points.

You did savings and efficiency. 

Zac Dearing: [00:24:00] Yep. 

John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, that, that was my case 

Brandon Niro: manufacturer. 

Zac Dearing: That is not it. Really. Sorry. Trainer? Carrier, definitely not. 

John Wilson: Well, do you remember, what was it, the white rod, what was the study where like everyone, it was back in the early two thousands. I think Lennox did it, but. They did this study where they asked like 10,000 homeowners, what brand of equipment do you have in your basement?

Oh. And everyone said, white Rogers, Honeywell, who's the name of the thermostat. Mm-hmm. Like no one has any idea what's in their basement. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Even though in, in fairness to Brandon. His proposition was that they really care that it's Honeywell versus that they realize that Honeywell is the manufacturer.

Either way, it's not the case. So number two is the reputation of the contractor at 19%, which that 

John Wilson: was my other guess, who's either gonna be savings and efficiency or rep 

Zac Dearing: 19%. Then basically Tide is system comfort and energy efficiency. Yeah. At 11%. There's an interesting element, um, of. The education involved.

Brand of equipment's, 9% perceived installation quality is 5%. Again, if it was the number one most important thing, [00:25:00] you also could obviously say that reputation of contractor and perceived installation quality, maybe they actually go together. 

Brandon Niro: Promise, I'm drinking my own training Kool-Aid too good. Can't talk upfront price.

Zac Dearing: But I think what's interesting is it also means that 69% of the time price is not the number one thing. 

John Wilson: Think about how much, well, I, and I think I, I, I was looking for clarity. It's upfront cost. Mm-hmm. Like the whole other bucket of cost is overtime cost fair. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Yeah. Which utility savings would factor into that?

John Wilson: Utility savings would be right there, but also like loan. So to me, I think what, what I got from that being number one, this is something we're already working on internally, is like, does upfront cost actually matter? So we had this big revelation where like, is it pantheon? It was, Hey, do we even need to give discounts, which where we've run discounts.

And I was thinking that way because I would like a [00:26:00] discount as a consumer. Sure. I've also never used consumer debt, so for me, that actually impacts my upfront cost, which is very valuable to me. Sure. But most people only care about the financing or like the cost. So with 31% caring the most about upfront cost, what that tells me.

Is financing is even more important than I thought. Because if we can approach this with like, Hey, you have no upfront cost. Mm-hmm. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. 

John Wilson: Like, because of whatever financing promotion we put together, you're solving 31% of people's problems. Like that's amazing. 

Brandon Niro: Yeah. 

John Wilson: It gives you an opportunity to educate on the value adds, which are the, you know, buckets farther down.

So I, I, to me that I'm kind of optimistic that that's the main pain point, just 'cause of the changes we're making to our sales process. 

Brandon Niro: Okay. 

Zac Dearing: I think what's also interesting is. Seven out of 10 times is not the number one concern. Like how much do we hear in sales trainings? Mm-hmm. About, oh, price, objections, price, price, price, price, price.

And then of course, in the sales training, it's like, no, it's all about value, value, [00:27:00] value, value, value. Mm-hmm. But what's interesting is for seven outta 10 homeowners cost, whether upfront cost or, or, or, or whatnot. Isn't the thing that's most top of mind for them. Yeah. So as an industry, are we hyper fixating in making something a problem or a focus area that isn't necessarily for the vast majority of homeowners the case?

Brandon Niro: Mm-hmm. 

Zac Dearing: Okay. So now we're gonna think about the contractor that they ultimately chose. So the question is, what is the most important quality? For the contractor, they chose quick and responsive professional in-home visit, thorough in explaining options, followed up promptly, gave me control. 

John Wilson: All right.

Responsive. Professional in-home? 

Zac Dearing: Yep. Uh, professional In-home visit. Basically you could think of it as the in-home experience. 

John Wilson: Alright. Thorough what now? 

Zac Dearing: Uh, thorough in explaining options, explain the options. Basically, um, gave them control over the decision process and they followed up promptly. Which one did they say was the most [00:28:00] important?

John Wilson: The most important. Hmm. Who's up? 

Zac Dearing: Brandon? 

Brandon Niro: Like shoot straight from the hip. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah, 

Brandon Niro: it's control. 

Zac Dearing: Control. Okay. Really control. I don't think that's it at all. Really? No. What do you think it is, John? It is not control, 

John Wilson: it's, it's gonna be communication, and it's either gonna be quick follow up or responsive, but my guess is because people only reached out to 2.1, it's gonna be quick and responsive.

Like who showed up, who called back, so quick and responsive, 

Zac Dearing: not correct. That's wild. In home visit. 

John Wilson: That was my second. 

Zac Dearing: Oh, I mean, likely story, likely still, but I mean, think about it. Think about it over the course of a buying journey. Yeah. As you're interacting with contractors, where is the, if a good sort of next star or other best practice group mm-hmm.

Where are you spending most of your time as a homeowner? 60 minutes to two hours with the [00:29:00] contractor in the home, and then maybe you're doing a little bit before, a little bit after. Yeah. That's what's really sort of leaving the impression. At least 20 to 70%. What I think is really interesting. What, what was the percent?

Uh, 70%, 70 said that that was one of the reasons they chose the ultimate contractor. With that said, quick, that's wild, quick and responsive communication, 49%, which I think one of the things that I imagine that's not close be asking each other or asking yourselves is how quickly are we responding back to homeowners?

Mm-hmm. Um, and then lastly, uh, on this, uh. Promptly after the visit. 39% right? Follow up promptly. Mm-hmm. So communication is broken into, or, or follow. Upness is broken up into two categories. Um, control it honestly surprised me. 39%. But here's daily double. It'll be worth two points. Brandon, it'll go to you.

Oh, pressure's on for, for overall it's 36% [00:30:00] like average, uh, 36% of. Homeowners said that the contractor, they chose what was uh, important to them was the control they gave over the process. That was for overall across all homeowners. Actually, we'll ask the question a slightly different way. Uh, I really wanna make this a, a real, real competitive match.

Um, do you think, did, do millennials or baby boomers value more? Control? Control? 

Brandon Niro: I feel like a baby boomer would value control more. 

John Wilson: But I think this is just like somebody Googled disc analysis by generation. Yeah, yeah. Which generation has more Ds? Yeah, 

Brandon Niro: I, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I feel like boomers would, right?

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I mean, I've been historic the way this is saying, and I'm historically wrong, so I should choose that and then probably choose the other one. But we'll just, you know, continue to stick by that bias and say, the boomers 

John Wilson: and I, I would like, even without knowing the answer, take millennial purely because millennials.

Don't like the pushy sales. Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] But like boomers like grew up with it. So I would've taken the opposite regardless of answer, John. Got it. 

Zac Dearing: Millennials at 44%, baby boomers at 27%. 

John Wilson: Millennials have way more, uh, like dominant. Personalities, is 

Brandon Niro: it dominant or they just don't deal with it in the first place? 

John Wilson: I didn't like, I only have my own experience to draw from and I'm like a high D, so like I take immediately control of the sales process.

Do I think, give myself a point. 

Zac Dearing: Uh, I, I gave you yourself two points. It was a daily double. You got two points, 

John Wilson: man, that vest is gonna look so good on me. 

Zac Dearing: That's not over til it's over. One more thing that we haven't talked about. Trustworthiness on some visceral level, on some sub subconscious level. The audience should really like.

It's like, oh, we're talking about trust. Where they out? Everybody fuck around. Yeah. Uh, so John, we'll start with you. Percentage, within five points, how important is trustworthy? Felt [00:32:00] Trustworthy. Felt 

John Wilson: trustworthy? 

Zac Dearing: Yes. So affirmatively. For the contractor. They chose what stood out. 

John Wilson: Yeah, felt trustworthy.

Within 

Zac Dearing: five points. Within five points. This will be a daily triple, so it's worth three points. Wow. 

John Wilson: He's given you a chance to redeem yourself. Uh, shit. Um. I wanna say like 76 or 80, like that has to be, I'll say 77. What's yours? I don't want any hints from Zach before you guys. 

Zac Dearing: Wait, wait, wait. You guys have always gotten the hints from it.

It is not that, it is not 76. It is not 76. Yeah. I mean, as, as just like one, and I'm not sharing any new information. We said the most, the highest thing was professional in-home visit at 70%. Mm-hmm. So. [00:33:00] That is kind of establishing the ceiling, 

Brandon Niro: right? 60, 60%, 

Zac Dearing: 58%. So it's within five points, so you get three points.

That's wild. It is interesting 

John Wilson: because after all that, whoops, I gave you an extra one after all that conversation of like reviews. And, and so where I was coming from, 'cause I was combining more shit, so I was like, okay, professional in the home is one measurement of trustworthiness. 

Brandon Niro: Mm-hmm. 

John Wilson: Another one is like responsive 'cause Okay.

They're trustworthy. They're almost, I almost would've guessed it'd be like 90%, like who's gonna hire someone untrustworthy to work on their home? 

Brandon Niro: My stereotypes have been off apparently on this one so far. But again, from my viewpoint, I'm looking as like, I look at the control one, right? So control is super low.

On that side of it. Yeah. And control to me is like trustworthiness of like, it feels car sales mini, right? Where they're just like trying to get a deal done. So if there's that many people who don't rank that highly, does that also not play as much of a factor anymore? I [00:34:00] guess that's interesting. 

Zac Dearing: There's also an interesting question of expectations.

Is it that the way you've always been sold to in home services is that it isn't super trustworthy? Yeah. And you have so little control. You don't even know to expect that in this sale. Yeah. One of the interesting things to ask all of these homeowners, right, would be like, okay, let's imagine it's now not home services, but instead you're buying a car, right?

Something that no one thinks is great, or buying a new laptop. I think an experience a lot of times, or buying a new phone and experience and more commonly is thought as a positive shopping experience. How do those answers change? Like one of the things that we're asking. He's really more of their lived experiences, not their Yeah.

Desired experience when some 

John Wilson: of that stuff is irrelevant. Like I don't think anybody gives a shit about trust in a laptop experience. Fair. Mm-hmm. Fair. Like, who cares? Yeah. You know, like, I don't need to trust the Best Buy guy. Like I came in there to get a MacBook. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's totally fair.

It's like pretty easy to evaluate whether you got the MacBook you wanted and whether it [00:35:00] booted up or not. That's totally fair. I 

John Wilson: wonder what Tru, I wonder what that would look like for cars. 'cause I almost don't. I think with the way that cars got priced, like you don't need to trust anymore. It became trustless 

Zac Dearing: fair.

I 

John Wilson: think 

Zac Dearing: it's 

John Wilson: good 

Zac Dearing: because of the carvana's of the world or what do you Yeah, I 

John Wilson: think so. Like the Teslas, the Carvana's, like you can just go on and buy a car now. Yeah. Like you can just order it. You don't have to go see anything and like you don't have to trust anybody 

Brandon Niro: and everything online too. I can go search an inventory Yeah.

Of everything I want before I ever go there. And I know exactly what the MSRP is and I'm not guessing versus totally hvac. No one. 

John Wilson: Well, yeah, no one can find the price. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Yeah. 

John Wilson: 10, 10% of people or whatever, can't find 

Zac Dearing: the price percent. Yeah. Yeah. 85% can't find the price. Yeah. Which means that now it's opaque.

You don't really know. Trustworthiness in a weird way, to your point, it's like, Hey. Actually, my trustworthiness of Best Buy doesn't matter. 'cause I know exactly what the price should be and I know I'm gonna come in a sealed box and it's gonna be an Apple laptop, whatever the case may be. But here, trustworthiness [00:36:00] comparatively matters more because I actually have no idea what I'm fundamentally getting.

Yeah. One of the things that we see a lot in the homeowner research we do, not just the quantitative, but also the qualitative, is trust, right? Is the lack of trust, homeowners feel. Mm-hmm. The lack of agency and control. And so I think it's something that really animates a lot of the shopping experience.

And if you think about the typical home services, it's some guy coming into your home. Mm-hmm. Probably lecturing at you for 10 or 15 minutes in a bunch of technical jargon, and then giving you one or two options. Obviously there's a variety of contractors that are really looking to change that, but that is kind of the status quo.

Yeah. It almost seems 

Brandon Niro: like the intangibles in my mind, right, like the laptop. You get handed that. Mm. Your furnace, they you don't know. You don't know if it was good. Yeah. You know what's happening now. Something like an oil change, like you go to one of those quick change oils, like you don't really know what's happening.

You just have to, but that was only $9. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. 

Zac Dearing: [00:37:00] So final question. Uh, Brandon B. Dog has six. John J has eight. This will be similar to Jeopardy. It was part of my preparation. Okay. You will be able to bet. As many points as you would like. Uh, if you go negative, uh, well, I guess you technically can't, so that's fine.

You'll be able to bet as many points as you would like. Um, you will write down an answer. It will be prices, right rules, which means don't go over, 

John Wilson: don't go over what 

Zac Dearing: the, the actual number. 

John Wilson: Okay? 

Zac Dearing: Um, and the question is, what is the average amount? Homeowners said they would be willing to pay to an extend a one year.

Labor warranty on a heating and cooling system to a 10 year. So again, shit, 

John Wilson: that's interesting. That's a good question. 

Zac Dearing: We just had a lot of conversation about this. Interesting. Uh, so what is the average amount homeowners said they'd be willing to pay [00:38:00] to extend a one year. To a 10 year labor warranty on a heating and cooling system.

Prices, rights, you don't want to go over. It needs to be a number. Given this audience, I'm gonna specify in US dollars, I don't want any questions about currency afterwards. You can also put down the number of points that you would like to wager on this. So, Brandon B. Dog has six. John Jay has eight. We will give 10 seconds.

Got to write down full send. Oh 

Brandon Niro: yeah. I got nothing to 

John Wilson: lose here. Full send. Okay. All. So get outta here. I don't, I don't trust you. So, 

Zac Dearing: dollars. Dollars. 

John Wilson: How much would the average 

Zac Dearing: home don't exceed the amount? I appreciate brand's confidence. It's just like going in, 

Brandon Niro: you know, we're gonna, 

Zac Dearing: I, I, I, I like it. We're gonna hope for the best.

You're, you're a man that acts quickly. 

Brandon Niro: Hmm. 

Zac Dearing: John over here is like, need his answers. I think he's on his third answer by this time. 

Brandon Niro: There's a reason why he's, the, the, what we call us, he the [00:39:00] visionary and I'm the implementer, right? Yeah. Yeah. I just full send, he, he's gotta be analytical about it. Okay. I'm ready I think.

Zac Dearing: Okay. Alright. So as a quick recap, John, Jay has eight, Brandon has six. Uh, if they are wrong, they will lose said points. Um, and again, the question is, was the average I wagered homeowner, I wagered 

John Wilson: three, 

Zac Dearing: they would pay to extend or one year to a 10 year? Let's see it, uh, Brandon go first. So Brandon is, uh, wagering six points and he says it's $1,750.

Yep. 

John Wilson: Are there? I'm wagering. Three points. I'm saying 1500. 1500. Ooh, interesting. 

Zac Dearing: All right. Neither of y'all are cracked. Both of y'all exceeded the amount, which means ing that. Brandon goes down to zero. 

John Wilson: Oh crap. I go down to five. So like what? Yeah. What is the amount? 

Zac Dearing: Does anyone wanna just no [00:40:00] points on the line, but does anyone wanna guess what the amount is?

I'll take a wager for all my points back now. You know what I, yeah. Yeah. You know what, Brandon, we've tried so many. We'll give you one more shot. 

John Wilson: Do we have, do we have, uh, 

Zac Dearing: 50 bucks? 850 closer? 

John Wilson: I mean, I, I guess I would've guessed a thousand. Next. It's 

Zac Dearing: 5 63. 

John Wilson: That's very low. 

Zac Dearing: It is. And what's crazy is if you look at the median, it's even lower.

It's two 50 and then you see a massive dispersion, standard deviation. 

Brandon Niro: Wow. 

Zac Dearing: So I think what's interesting is there's a couple different ways that you could interpret those results. I'm curious. What, how you guys think about it. 

John Wilson: My, well, I think we don't have enough context. 

Zac Dearing: Fair 

John Wilson: is like, 'cause one of the That's 

Zac Dearing: a great 

John Wilson: way to, uh, to, to wash away your wrong answer.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, like I, I, 'cause I was thinking about this the other day, so we're like, we're thinking about our extended warranty packages right now. And at first I, I was like, Hey, I think our average plan was gonna be $500. Like that's [00:41:00] what we estimated, but that was gonna be inclusive of water heaters, faucets, everything.

Mm-hmm. Because the way that I think about extended warranty, like if I go and buy a toy for one of my kids and it's a $50 toy, I get offered an extended warranty of like 9 99. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. 

John Wilson: So I think that as a percentage of the purchase price extended warranty is like, that's the question. Like would I be, would I be willing to pay $2,000 to protect a $10,000 system?

Probably not. But would I pay $2,000 to protect a $30,000 system? Sure. Probably. Sure. That's fair. So I, I feel like the percentage of purchase price might be a, which I would love to know that data point 'cause that would be fascinating. 

Brandon Niro: I guess. I mean maybe it's just 'cause I just recently had to replace all the kitchen appliances.

I wonder if that also gives false, did you buy extended warranty? I didn't, but I did get the pricing on it and I wonder that's what like gives you the false sense of it. 'cause they were honestly pretty cheap. It was like [00:42:00] $99 for the fridge, less than that for the dishwasher. The prices felt very, very cheap comparatively.

So if I'm looking at how much I spent on a fridge versus how much an HVAC system caused cost. Yeah. So that's like 5%. Of the purchase price was people, 

Zac Dearing: did the cheap this make you more or less inclined? Like did the Inexpensiveness make you more or less inclined to go with it? Um, like if it was $200 or $300 rather than 99?

Yeah, 

Brandon Niro: I don't know. Honestly, that's a good question. I guess I think if it's not even percentages, it's dollar amounts. Yeah, sure. I'm like, was like, yeah, it's nine, you know, it's a hundred bucks, whatever. Could you do that? Would it really matter? Not much. Right. You know, if I'm thinking about an HVAC system, if I were to immediately have to go buy an HVAC system or any point.

In the future. Now thinking about that, I could see how you would see, expect LA lower. Well, if I paid a hundred bucks for a fridge, that was a couple grand. Okay, this is $12,000, five, 600 bucks, right? Like I, I could, I guess I could see where homeowner would get the math from on that if they've [00:43:00] ever had to purchase anything that they've been offered extended warranties on.

Zac Dearing: Sure. So I think what's also really interesting is this was asked as an open-ended question where we asked them to, oh, that is interesting. Give the dollar amount. It is a different question, which is, and specifically what is the max amount you are willing to pay to go from one to 10 year. It also becomes really interesting, which is instead if you said, Hey, if an extended warranty was offered for 7% of the purchase price, would you go forward with it?

Right? Like that would help assess as I see. The willingness to pay, like what could you actually, or that would help assess what you could actually charge This instead tries to assess the perceived value, which is not necessarily the same thing. 

John Wilson: Well, and is very low. I mean, $500 is kind of a shocking Yeah.

Um, that is really 

Zac Dearing: surprising to me. Yeah. Which to wrap things up, um, and before we anoint the winner crown. [00:44:00] Vest Vest. Vest. Yeah. You know Masters has the the green jacket. We have a black Carhart closer jacket. 

John Wilson: Yeah. 

Zac Dearing: Closer. Yeah. 

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Zac Dearing: What surprised you the most of everything today? 

Brandon Niro: All of 'em. 'cause I got a lot of them all. Um, I was a constantly surprised. It was constantly surprised. Every question. 

Zac Dearing: I was more surprised when I got one, right. Actually. 

Brandon Niro: Yeah, no, honestly. Yeah. Uh, most surprising, I don't know.

Probably the search side of it. Yeah. How [00:45:00] much of it is reliant on that? And I guess it really actually was the differences between the millennial and side. I expected that to be a different, which obviously I was incorrect on. So yeah, 

John Wilson: I think mine might've been extended warn dude, to be honest. I think, um, and this is just like from talking in the industry extended warranty.

On one hand I think people are like, I've personally never bought an extended warranty, so I'm not like a. I can't like ask myself like, what would I do in that scenario? Um, 'cause nothing's ever seemed valuable to me. 

Brandon Niro: Yeah. 

John Wilson: But like, there's whole companies that have driven, uh, well, and maybe that's not even the place to start.

Like in the list of objections that sales training usually covers in our industry, warranty is like one of the top. 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. 

John Wilson: Like that's one of the big things is like, what's the warranty? 

Zac Dearing: Yeah. Um. 

John Wilson: So it to, for me, it really just opens up more questions. It's like, okay, if we don't value extended warranty, [00:46:00] then like, what's the other context?

What's the percentage of purchase price that we care about? Should that warranty have just been included? Like, would they care? Would they value a system more? Yeah. If it included a 10 year warranty. Totally. Versus like, oh, here's a $500 ding. Um. Like how do you get someone to value it? Because I feel like most of the training and Nexstar and certain path, like a lot of it is, or certain path anyways, is very focused on like the no lemon, the really like hitting warranties hard.

So it was, yeah, that was surprising to me that like it wasn't valued Sure. As much as I would've thought. Sure. 

Zac Dearing: Um, for me what surprised me was the AI search, the amount we talk about AI search and how it's changing everything. Yeah. And the fact that for a millennial it's about as popular as walking into Home Depot, right.

In terms of how they're gonna find a contractor. Yes. Yeah. I think that is very surprising. Obviously, it will change over time. Like to be clear, like this isn't a Luddite. Like, [00:47:00] uh, let's go put our head in the sand and not care about. Clawed and perplexity, like, it will matter. It will matter more. I think though the discussion that we had around, well, maybe it's lost a little bit of trust as we go through that sort of valley of disillusionment before it really, I've also 

John Wilson: just never looked for a contractor on ai.

Zac Dearing: Have you ever looked for a contractor period outside of your Uh Oh yeah. Home and bath. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I hear a lot of instances of where you're not looking for contractors. Yeah. Yeah. How, how do you look for a contractor? What is the John Wilson way of finding a contractor? 

John Wilson: Um, a buddy. 

Zac Dearing: Buddy Mine 

John Wilson: probably, I know probably recommendations.

Well, it actually, I'm probably more like a boomer 'cause it's gonna be previous use. Like do we use them professionally inside Wilson. Okay. Uh, and then if not that recommendations. Yep. And then like my last resort is Google. Interesting. And I would never think to go on AI like, 'cause I just don't think they would give me relevant search results.

Interesting. Mm-hmm. 

Zac Dearing: What's also fascinating about that, proving once again, John, that you are not like I'm a boomer. [00:48:00] Well, uh, even 24% of boomers would look on Google. 62% of your peers and millennials would look on Google first, and you are not like your peers. I would, I 

Brandon Niro: wouldn't, yeah. Take it outside of home Services for a minute.

What about like restaurants? 

John Wilson: Um, um, yeah, 

Brandon Niro: probably Google. Probably Google, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Why, why make the switch then if you're so reliant on the recommendations? 

John Wilson: Well, I probably care a lot about trust just 'cause of how much emphasis we put on it. And I know what contractors like. Yeah. Contractors like kind of deserve some of the negative reputation that they get.

So for me, like I know that you can gamify Google reviews. Mm-hmm. Like I know it, but you can't gamify the kitchen or model you just did at my sister's house. Like it either went well or it went terribly so, or like, Hey, I've used you 15 times for Wilson. Like I have a pretty reliable track record of working with this person versus like.[00:49:00] 

I don't know. You know, Google's just Google, but like for a restaurant, like, it doesn't matter if I, you know, lose $200 on a steak I didn't like, but 

Brandon Niro: sounds like my steak better 

John Wilson: be 

Brandon Niro: bucks gonna say, 

Zac Dearing: holy moly. I think that would, I imagine that goes pretty far here. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but, uh, I think, I think the other really interesting thing is just for the contractors that they chose.

Yeah. How important. Really just the time that you're spending with them, whether in the home or responding quickly afterwards 

John Wilson: that yeah, that was really interesting. 

Zac Dearing: How important. Yeah. Professional in-home presentation. Professional in-home visit. Interesting enough not, not presentation. Um, which is an interesting counterpoint to this idea of trustworthiness and do you have control over the decision process?

Yeah. But I think it's really easy to lose sight of, Hey, we did all this work to place on Google. Yeah. May or may not have had opaque pricing online. Mm-hmm. We get someone to the home, we're zooming in or [00:50:00] telephoning in. What is their experience from that moment on? What is the follow-up? What is the responsiveness?

Even being in control. What control do they have over it? Well, gentlemen, interesting stuff. This was fun. Uh, so this was fun. Uh, there was heightened competition

and if there was a sportsmanship award, I don't think either of you would've won it. Yeah. But technically. Wow. The vast, incredible, incredible, the crop's not sized for a man, 

John Wilson: John. Yeah. 

Brandon Niro: We really, we made an assumption. Yeah. He was prepared for me to win this. Yeah, he did. He made an assumption. I think I purposely got sleep deprived by, Hey guys, by this guy the day before.

I'm, I'm, I'm a closer. 

Zac Dearing: He is a closer. That's 

Brandon Niro: normal. 

Zac Dearing: Thank you all for joining. Uh, we look forward to running this competition back next year. Yeah. And seeing who is the second, second annual winner of the, uh, closer mantle homeowner survey. And if you're curious to learn more. You can go to use [00:51:00] mantle.com/survey and see all of the results.

John Wilson: Oh yeah. Solid. We'll put the link in the description below. 

Zac Dearing: Great. 

John Wilson: Thanks for joining us. Make sure you give us a five star, wherever it is, you listen to podcasts and hit that sub button on YouTube.