Why We Stopped Buying Service Vans — And You Should Too

Should Home Service Companies Stop Buying Vans?

In this episode of Owned and Operated, John Wilson is joined by Nashville operator Jack Carr to break down one of the most overlooked expenses in home services:

Fleet decisions.

With service vans now costing $60,000+ and fuel and repair costs climbing, John and Jack make the case for a radical shift:

Ford Mavericks for service… and trailers for installs.

They unpack why the Maverick may be the most capital-efficient vehicle for HVAC, plumbing, and electrical businesses, how truck stock changes operational discipline, and whether modular install trailers could replace box trucks altogether.

If you’re scaling a trades business and trying to protect cash flow, this episode offers a practical framework for building a leaner, smarter fleet.

Key Topics Covered:

• Why service vans have become a drag on the balance sheet
• The real economics of Maverick vs high-roof Transit vans
• Fuel savings, lower capital costs, and fleet scalability
• Truck stock limits in HVAC compared to plumbing and electrical
• The “install trailer” system: modular packouts for equipment installs
  
  

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Connect:

John Wilson - https://x.com/WilsonCompanies
Jack Carr - https://x.com/thehvacjack

#HVAC #Plumbing #Electrical #HomeServices #FleetManagement #ServiceBusinessGrowth

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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

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Transcript

OAO 285

​[00:00:00] 

Welcome back. 

Welcome back. 

Welcome back. Welcome back to Owned and Operated. I am your host, John Wilson on the show With me today, I have the infamous Jack Carr, the bald bearded man from Nashville. Then a local Nashville man, it, it doesn't roll off the tongue quite like a local Florida man, but it's pretty good.

Yeah, 

you'll know it's him if he is denser than he should be, and wearing cowboy boots. 

All of this is accurate and it doesn't offend me whatsoever. Um, 

good, good. 

I've said it a long time ago, on many occasions, is I'm bald. 

Yeah. 

And I'm short and, uh, so like, I gotta work hard, man. That's what it's about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

It's life. 

Yeah. You gotta, you gotta overdeliver on, 

you gotta, I gotta over, I have to overcome my, uh, shortcomings. So I'm ex super, I'm super pumped about [00:01:00] today's topic. I'm leading into this. 

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Alright, let's do it. 

So I got a hair-brained idea. 

Okay. 

And I wanna walk it through with you.

I'm ready. I'm 

ready. Okay. So everybody knows, or at least everybody who's on Twitter. So not everybody, probably not even half of our audience. I love Mavericks. The Ford Maverick 

specifically. Ford Mavericks. 

Ford Mavericks. Yeah. 

Not the political 

Mavericks are by far my favorite vehicle. So I'm gonna set the stage for you.

We just had Snowmageddon here in Nashville. 

Yes. 

Ice storm. Trees down, like everything's screwed up. We didn't have one single maverick get stuck this entire week of ice. 

Actually, I don't think we did either. I don't think I thought about that.

Yeah. 

So that's the first thing is we didn't have a single maverick stuck. Yeah. Um, our vans got stuck all the time, like. Regularly are, are two [00:02:00] transit vans that we have get stuck in snow and ice, just 'cause they're the high top and just, yeah, I don't, I don't know, but the Mavericks know and yeah, so we are working through, trying to come up with, um, a way to do more at the Maverick.

So I, I just think that they are the, one of the most perfect vehicles for essentially almost all HVAC, plumbing and electrical. And so what I'm, I'm working through is how to come up with a way that I never have to buy another high top Ford again. 

Oh yeah. I'm so here for this. I mean, so we, we started doing mavericks.

We started doing pickups I think two years ago. Um, I wanna say half our fleet is pickup nows. And so we, the vans are just too much money. Uh, like we're buying these high roof vans and it's like 55 to $65,000. Mm-hmm. But you can go get a [00:03:00] maverick for like 26, 20 $7,000. So we started switching over purely for cost.

We're like, oh, why am I, mm-hmm. Why am I sending this guy in this $60,000 truck when a $27,000 truck will get better fuel economy and be cheaper? Uh. So yeah, we switched at the tail end of COVID and it has been huge. I don't think we bought a a van for, uh, three years now. 

Yeah, we haven't bought a van for the last three years.

And so our setup, 'cause I get asked this a lot specifically, is we go with a white maverick. We usually try to get the year before. So, uh, what happens is, like a lot of these larger groups, pest control, pool routes, whatever, they're buying 40 of these at a time or 30 of these at a time, and they don't necessarily.

Act. So they order 30, I should say, but they only buy 28. And so we pick up the last two that have been sitting on some lot in, in kind of some off area of Tennessee. And our guy at Ford knows that's what we're looking [00:04:00] for. So we get a 2024 white Ford Maverick. Uh, I, I don't really have a preference on eco versus um, or hybrid.

Versus non-hybrid. We have a mix in the fleet. Some people do have preference just because, um, like there's some known issues with the hybrid models that are a little bit more. Difficult to work on because they're hybrid. Right. Um, that being said, overall, we haven't had too many issues in general with them.

We've had one recall. Um, but we get that. Then about 26, 27, we have the DCU, um, cover by a RE, uh, which is like the three door. Um. 

Yep. 

What do you call this, uh, toppers with the roof rack already built in? Yeah, 

I think, I think that's what we're missing. 'cause that gives you the ability to put like a full water heater in there and we're using the Tono covers, which, um, you just can't push much.

Exactly. 

But we also, we had to do that during COVID because it used to take 30 weeks to [00:05:00] get the thing that you have. 'cause I think we have eight or nine of those and like, we just literally couldn't. Yeah. So we ended up with Anos and then we ended up sticking with them. 

But those are nice though, 'cause like that's where we can put, we put the, the tubes that you put your, your other pipes in and then we put a ladder, a like little giant ladder on it.

And like that's what sits on the top of the rack. Any kind of, you know, any kinda material that's oversized we, we get. But overall, yeah. What the only thing we're changing, which we we're. You know, as we're kind of learning our systems is we were doing the wrap packs, which are just like pull out drawers inside the bottom of that.

Um, that, and I don't know the, the size, whatever the bed size is, like five by four or whatever. Um, but we're actually moving away from those, so I don't want to say that that's what we're using, but most of them do have that because those are about a thousand bucks. Yeah. And we can buy three Milwaukee Packouts, like brand Milwaukee Packouts for that same cost.

Yeah. Yeah. So like, we're, we're. Messing with? 

[00:06:00] Well, I just found out that Milwaukee Packouts have a full like truck stock system do. So we bought a business at the end. Yeah. 

What does that 

like 

look like? 

Dude, I don't even freaking know. Like it it, well, it's the packouts, but there's a way that you can hang them on the wall of a van.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I've seen that. 

I didn't know 

that. 

Oh, I ha I have never seen that. So we, we, yeah, we bought this business and they have six plumbing vehicles and all of them have Milwaukee Packout. That's cool. Like it's, it was freaking awesome. Yeah. 

That's the reason to buy the plumbing business in itself.

It's that you got six Milwaukee 

s Oh yeah. I was like, oh, this, this alone. You know, you've got me. But, 

but yeah. So that's what we started doing. So our, our, our fleet. Yeah. 'cause like the idea behind it right? Is, and we've talked about this a lot, so I'm not gonna beat the dead horse here, but like the idea behind going to, um.

Mavericks. Mm-hmm. A big portion of that is reduced inventory. Like you can't store $30,000 in inventory. Yeah. Which is a catch [00:07:00] 22. Yeah. You can't 

hide. 

But realistically, I don't even feel like it's a catch 22. Like you just can't hide multiple motors and multiple things from 10 years ago, six or seven drums of like 4 0 7 C and some random R, you know, 1 32 for this one job you had 10 years ago.

Like you have to be meaningful and thoughtful about. What inventory you have on stock. But, so we're able to do a couple packouts now instead of the rat pack. And then our only rule is like, hey, you keep your tools inside the truck, like all the nice tools like the, the, uh, pump down system, the, uh, recovery machine, your, your gauge set, like all that kinda stuff.

Just keep that in the truck. And then in the back is where you keep, you know, a roll of copper and, um, any kind of tank. We have a little tank strap that we do to the back wall for, uh, our four 10 A. Yeah. Uh, and R 32 and like, it is perfect. We, we [00:08:00] had the ice storm. Nobody got stuck. We were able to run a ton of calls.

Yeah. We had very little issues with, uh, inventory or. Like crashes. Mm-hmm. No problem. And we're, we're getting into this, we're all in for like 33 per, per truck. So that's, that's not the hair brainin idea. So that's just setting the stage. 'cause everybody asks. I love it. I think it's the best thing ever. The I would run.

Yeah. 

I, I think we're in the, we're in the twenties with it. Like we brought on 20 last year, five or something the year before. We have a ton of rangers, we have a ton of tacos, but we ended up with mavericks 'cause they're so much cheaper. 

Uh, the 

also great 

gas mileage. 

I, I definitely think it's just like the right decision.

Yeah. To be honest, it is the most like cash efficient decision that you can make. 

Yeah. I mean, we started, 

it's half the price. 

Yeah. We started just for like, our salespeople who are running around in, in like F1 fifties. Yeah. Like an F-150 

is so we actually, 

man, like 

Yeah. It's crazy. Well, we, we ended up doing the Chevy Trailblazers for [00:09:00] salespeople.

Mm-hmm. 

And those are like $17,000. Yeah, brand new. 

That's pretty good too. 

So that's great. I'll have to 

look into that one. You're 

gonna 

buy Mavericks, 

how Chevy 

Trail? 

So, yeah. For, for salespeople we started putting them in. I mean, it, it's still an SUV, but yeah, it was, uh, 17 grand. Yeah, I mean, with taxes it was maybe like 20.

And, and so the hair brainin idea, John is, 

yeah, I'm ready. 

We wanna move away from vans and trucks, al or vans and box trucks altogether. 

Yeah. 

And so the way that we are thinking about doing this, right, 

and I think the big, the big pushback is gonna be install, right? 

The big push back's always, that's 

gonna be like, how do we do this?

Yeah. 'cause y admittedly, like you cannot fit anything else in the back of the truck. There's no, like, you maybe get a AAP coil, like there's nothing that can go back there that's over a certain size. Yeah. They're able to, to carry water heater around. 'cause we have custom fracks that sit on the back of the tailgate.

Um, but outside of that, like [00:10:00] you cannot carry an HVAC unit and we have to do five ton package units here in Nashville. So the what we're thinking yeah, is the Mavericks can tow up to 4,400 pounds, which is about. I mean, you can get a pretty big trailer for 4,400. It's, 

that's two other Mavericks. One Maverick can tow 

two 

Mavericks.

One Maverick can tow two other Mavericks. And so what we're thinking is like, what if we created a system and we're working on it right now? Yeah. It's, and the system is, instead of Milwaukee Packouts for our installs, we're doing trailer packouts where. You have an extra $2,000 enclosed trailer, a six by 10 enclosed trailer that can fit, not only fit a package unit, but sits lower and has the dropdown gate so they're not actually lifting anything up and over.

It is full roll in rollout and yeah, um, for 2 2500 bucks, an outfitting on a brand new enclosed trailer, six [00:11:00] by 10 trailer, it can haul that plus a five ton gas package unit, which is only 6 5, 600 pounds more. Still be underweight, and then you could outfit that thing with all the gas fittings and everything you need.

And then once that one's done, at the end of the day, you pull it back in and they go and grab the next trailer. So it's really just disconnecting trailer, hooking up, new trailer, and that's your pack out. So that's my crazy hair brand idea. 

Okay. 

What do you think 

I, where, where 

am 

I missing something? 

I think, yeah, I think the only thing I don't like is driving with trailers as a skill.

And some idiots gonna jackknife that thing. Uh, so I don't love that. Um, you'll probably have more accidents, so you'll have to noodle on that, maybe like one extra year. I don't know. I what I, what I like a lot. Is, it's the [00:12:00] same reason I like box trucks. Like you can just change the box but keep the chassis.

So all the investment into the box, like into the trailer. Like you can, a trailer can last like 30 freaking years. Like it doesn't matter. Yeah. Uh, so that's kind of nice is useful. Life is a long time. Uh, so I think I like that a lot. We, we've talked about doing this before, um, we talked about it. Well, we have one for excavation.

But we've talked about doing this for boilers, I think, and maybe generators, like there being like a trailer that goes and handles generators. Uh, but we obviously have not done it. Yeah. I, I don't think I, I don't think I hate 

it. Yeah. And so the way I'll try to look at that, right, so when you're talking about accidents, you're really talking about like he backed into something or he jacked knife something.

And the way I look at that is the damage 

or took a corner too sharp. 

Yeah. Yeah. The damage that you generate from one of those accidents, is it $30,000 equivalency to paying for. A van, [00:13:00] I don't know. And not to mention like, they also screw up those vans in the same exact way by Jack, not jackknifing it, but like taking a turn to tie in a gas station and now your, your nice white van has a yellow stripe across the side.

So like, I don't think that, that it's equivalent to one to zero. It's like one to 0.3. Um. 

Yeah. 

And so that 0.7 of risk, how much is that worth? But that's what, that's the way we're moving is we're gonna move a full, 

so you'd have three 

th 

or like two or something. 

Three. We're thinking about three enclosed trailers.

The only downside, and we're gonna, we're gonna do the same for water heaters. It's like, Hey, this is our water heater. Um, pack out van or pack out a trailer. Uh, the, 

well, I feel like you could almost do that in the same 'cause. I mean, HVAC guys can put in a water heater, 

uh, either way. Yeah, I mean, I, I think that it has gas fittings, it has a, like an HVAC packout is very similar to a water heater packout.

Right. There's not, all the tools are in the back of the truck anyway, so it's not really, again, [00:14:00] it's not, um, the trailer is just the equipment and like the equipment installation. Yeah. Which is gas pipe whip. 

How, how big 

is the trailer? Uh, six by 10. 

That's not bad. 

It's not bad at all. Single axle. Um, 

and you could, you could honestly.

Probably pull that with something like a trailblazer. You might not even need a, a, like to pull 

that around. I like it that it runs kind of like a billboard. So it runs like a box truck still right? In the sense of when you wrap it. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Um, and then the only thing that I am discouraged on is there's, I'm a hundred percent sure that there is no way that we can pull excavation equipment with a maverick.

Um, so the, the. 

No, not with the trailer you have. I mean, that's a big trailer. 

Well, I just mean like in general like that, that that excavation needs like an F two 50 minimal to pull that thing. 

So 

yeah, 

I mean we, we have a, we have a three 50 pulling ours. Yeah. But that was a, you know, the first time we bought a, [00:15:00] a excavation like dump, it was a seven 50.

That thing was humongous. Yeah. Um, and it was like 125 grand and then we downgraded to, uh, a three 50. And that, I mean, that thing's been great. It's like it's a big truck that happens to have a dump back. It, it's good. Like I, we'll probably get another one. 

Yeah. And so that, that's my only downside. But, uh, again, it's really for excavation only.

We already have the, the truck, so we're not getting rid of that one. Mm-hmm. Um. And for the most part, so 

the full Mavericks, bunch of trailers, I kind of, I'm kind of into it, but the most part, I, I think I'm into it 

Full mavericks. Bunch of trailers. Yeah. Like our Mavericks already have like, a lot of 'em already have like 50,000 miles on it, but we saw, we also saw meaningful change to our gas.

Like the amount of gas is Oh yeah. Is Oh 

yeah. Our gas is down. 

Our gas is down too. Yeah. 

Now I think, I think that, um. I think that gas prices changed. I'd have to look, but in 2024 we spent [00:16:00] $456,000 on gas. And in 2025 we spent 298. 

Yeah. 

So like $157,000 of a difference. Like it was enough that I remember the numbers.

'cause I was like, what the hell happened to this line item? 

Yeah. So we're about the same. So I think it was a bit of, yeah, gas pricing went down, but also there's some level of. Uh, drop. 

We controlled it from, it's, it's one of the few things you can do to control gas pricing. 

Yeah. I mean, I drove, so I, I had to run some calls this last week 'cause of Snowmageddon and, uh, 

yeah, 

man, I was going some distance.

I drove for like three or four days without having to fill that thing up and I'm talking about like a hundred miles a day. Like it was wild. And then when I filled it up 30 bucks, I'm, I'm blown away man. So Maverick's a big fan. Um, 

well, I'm, I'm trying to convince Brandon to do the same. He's like, dude, we can't, but I've slowly, we've actually been able to pull it off because I've told him, I'm like, so the way I'm gonna get you onto this is I'm just not gonna buy any more vans.

Like, we're not, so 

you [00:17:00] just, 

uh, so we've, 

you just, you're gonna, 

we're like forcing him into it. 

You're just gonna wait until I have a, a install trailer rolling around. And then I'm gonna take some pictures and you, and then you're gonna finally pull the trigger. 

Yeah. 

Brandon will be okay with 

it. It's, it's gonna be.

It's gonna be great. But yeah, so we've, we started moving, like primarily pick up a couple years ago and yeah, I, I don't think we've maybe bought one van in the past. Three years that wasn't, uh, like a cheap pickup. 'cause like I don't wanna pay 50 fricking thousand dollars. Yeah. I think my other solution, and this, this is something that I, I think is kind of funny.

So like when we first started off in the business, we were buying used van Vans and like the only measurement for I'm gonna buy this van is, was it below 20 grand? Uh, and like we moved in 2019 to Enterprise and we've been doing that whole shindig. And now we're like trying to figure out vans again. And I'm like, I don't wanna keep paying $60,000 for a vehicle.

Like, I just think that sucks. I think that, uh, you know, when I started off in enterprise, like the Chevy vans were like 30 grand. It was 20 20, 20 [00:18:00] 19, 20 20. Like it didn't double yet. Um, so yeah, so, so I started calling some friends and I mean, I talk to people running a hundred million dollar businesses and they're buying $20,000 used vans like.

So it, it was, it was just, it was like, man, okay, maybe we should have just been doing that the whole time. Uh, because I think it is, it's such a drag to the business going and buying these. Like it's just a bad balance sheet decision. Like, Hey, I'm gonna go buy a $60,000 vehicle. That's also worse on gas and probably more repairs.

Yeah. I mean 

like, and I'm gonna lose more inventory in it. Like it's a, it is a bad business decision. 

I think the only side to it that is a good business decision, which I will give up, is like the ability to repair anything on site. You do not have to put in any extra. Labor or time or material into, yeah, something.

But again, especially in hvac, like plumbing is a little bit different just because, [00:19:00] um, I think that you can, you can actively have a better truck stock list to manage. Yeah. What is on a house, right? Because like pipe's, all the same outdoor fittings, like a hose bib 

Yeah. 

Is going to be a hose bib no matter what brand it is.

Like customers don't care. The problem comes into play is like once you start running into warranty and non-warranty, OEM versus non OEM on Lennox versus Trane versus yeah, Goodman. And like, so how it, it's always blown my mind to me. Like how. How do people try to stock for all those contingencies when it just doesn't make sense to me?

You're going to have to run to the factory Yeah. Anyway, to get that warranty board. Mm-hmm. Or otherwise you're installing a non-warranty thing on, on a warrantied system, which then 

Yeah, I think we, we came up with like a $2,000 per truck, per Maverick h truck, HVAC service system, and it was very like generic parts driven.

Um, so that's been good for us. Let 

me ask you a question on that. Do you guys do I, is [00:20:00] that for all year or do you guys do two separate ones? 

I think it changes by the 

season. Yeah. 'cause that's what we did, because I was gonna say 2000 would be hard for all year, but we are about 2000 a season, so we do 2000 in cooling in about.

A little more in heating because we carry a couple different sets of inducers just in case, but like you can't, again, same thing with Inducer Motors is like all of them are very specific to the type of unit and the branded unit. Yep. There's really no OEM that fits all and um. It makes it, it makes it difficult, but like we, whether you had a truck that was like a K Kve or whatever they're called mm-hmm.

Topper, that was a a hundred thousand dollars truck with a bunch of stuff in it. Like, you still can't fix that problem and now you're spending the gas to get up to the warehouse and back where. Mm-hmm. You know, at least in the Maverick you can do it fast. So 

yeah, 

it's a very interesting, uh, segment. But in like plumbing, again, I think that you can truly have a better impact.

Um, and then electrical. We're still, 

and electrical is [00:21:00] super easy. Yeah. Like you can do install, the only issue is generators. 

Yeah. 

But you can get a lot done in a maverick in electrical. 

I was just looking up though, like a 22 kilowatt whole home generator is still only 600 pounds, like crated 600 pounds with transfer switch.

So that would still fit into the back of a 

Yeah, you could do the trailer 

of a trailer. So. 

Yeah, no, you can do a trailer for sure. Might even, might even be easier. 'cause then otherwise our, like we have a truck that has a lift gate and we have to use the lift gate truck for generators 'cause it's 600 pounds.

Yeah. So, I mean, being able to roll it out I think is a huge win. Um, 

yeah. 

Overall, so you're, you're on Team Maverick then? 

Oh yeah. Fully full 

company 

team. As, as much as, as much as we can 'cause it mainly just like, I don't wanna spend 50, 60 grand on a vehicle. Like I just won't for not, not even, I don't want to, I'm not going to.

Yeah. So if I have to buy a van, it's gonna be used. Um, so yeah, [00:22:00] my motivation is if I'm buying a vehicle, it's gonna be under, under 30 grand. I'm back on that. I would rather a brand new Maverick than a used van, but I would take a used van, but like I'm not gonna spend more than 30 grand. 

And is that based on like done 

with it?

Is there a number that is associated with that? Like, so for example, we could get like a, 

I just think it's a bad capital decision. Like I think like it's a drag on my balance sheet. I think it's a bad use of cash. Like I don't, I don't think it's like the right investment. 

Yeah. That's how we looked at it was more so if like we were at a 7% interest rate or give or change.

Give or take. Um, and so that comes out to be like 590, 500 $60 a month, which is wild compared to like the numbers I was getting for a $60,000 van. Like just crazy advance. 

Oh yeah. So like 1200 bucks a month for 

a van. Yeah. So you can buy two, you can have two technicians running, driving if a technician each HVAC driving 40 KA month in sales, like you can drive 80 KA month of sales.

And if you say the in, even if there was an [00:23:00] inefficiency in. The van that caused the technician to sell less at 10%. Um, now we're running, uh, 36 per tech. So you're at 72,000 for those two technicians running in those two trucks versus a van running 40 and then paying more to do so. Just the economics for me just don't work.

I love 'em, man. I love 'em so much. 

Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I think it's, I think it's like needed. I think you basically have to switch to them as much as you can and have the fewest amount of vans in fleet as possible. 'cause I, I don't think it helps anybody. It only drags the business down. 

Yeah. I mean, we'll see.

There's probably some big names out there that would completely disagree with me and you here. I mean, I don't, not to throw him under the bus, but like Hoffman, like Hoffman runs massive vans and I just don't understand the economics behind it. 

Yeah. Yeah. I dunno. Ask him. 

Yeah, probably will. 

Why do you run massive Vans?

He's like, why [00:24:00] don't you? 

That's funny. 

Sweet. 

Why don't you, 

um, 

well everyone switch over to Mavericks. They're cheap. If you like what you heard, hit that like button. Hit that sub button, tell your friends about us. 

Tell. Comment below where I'm wrong. 'cause I'm still trying to figure out, I think this is one of those ones that I'm right.

I don't think you're, it's, I don't 

think you're, 

honestly, John, it's rare too that we agree at this level. So I love it, 

dude. I'm like cheap. Cheap trucks. Cheap trucks. You have me a cheap trucks. Hey John, you wanna spend less on trucks? Yeah. Yeah, I do. 

Comment below why I'm wrong or why you are now going to buy all Mavericks and then we can have massive fleets of all Mavericks.

Sweet. 

Hell yeah.