"Finding Balance" - Mental Health, Burnout, and Career Resets in Dentistry (feat. Dr. Camden Brown)

Dentistry is rewarding—but it can also take a heavy toll on mental health. In this episode of The Dental Domination Podcast, Dan Brian sits down with Dr. Camden Brown, an orthodontist, mom, and coach for high-achieving professionals facing career or purpose crises.

Dr. Brown shares her powerful story of practice ownership, burnout, and how the COVID shutdown gave her the clarity to make a major life change. From selling her practice and spending time on a flower farm to returning to dentistry with a renewed sense of purpose, her journey offers hope and inspiration for any dental professional feeling overwhelmed.

You’ll hear candid insights on:

• The hidden prevalence of burnout and anxiety among dentists
• Why authenticity and values-based decisions matter in dentistry
• How a career crisis can become your greatest breakthrough
• Practical steps for creating a healthier, more fulfilling career in dentistry (or any profession)

If you’ve ever struggled with stress, self-doubt, or dissatisfaction in your practice, this conversation will remind you that you’re not alone—and that change is possible.

Check out the full show notes for more details and to connect with Dr. Brown and DentalScapes!

Transcript

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All right, welcome back to the Dental Domination Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Dan Brian I'm the co-founder of Dentalscapes, but as always, I am not here to talk about that. I'm here to get into uh something I think is mission critical within the field of dentistry uh today. And that's honestly, we're going to be touching on a lot of things, mental health, burnout, professional burnout, and also talking about how dentists, orthodontists can reset. Reset and reorient and refocus and I'm joined today by very special guest. Dr. Camden Brown uh and Dr. Camden Brown uh is in South Carolina. Although I just uncovered a connection to my home state of Michigan, so that's pretty exciting. But Dr. Brown, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. You are doing your practicing orthodontist in fact, but you are also a coach for what you call. high achievers in career or purpose crisis. And I love that because uh I think it's so so specific and also something that a lot of people can relate to. I know I've been there at times in my own career. I'm not a dentist. You don't want sharp things in my hands, ah but I think it's something that everyone can relate to. You actually uh were in private practice, or at least what I mean by that is you owned your own private practice for several years and then sold it. m And in fact, I think uh you actually mentioned that you had worked on a flower farm for a time to kind of reset and reorient. So I'd love to talk about that. But tell us a little bit about yourself if you don't mind introduce your background, how you got into dentistry and then orthodontics and what's really led you to this juncture in your career. Yeah, thank you, Dan. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, so I'm an orthodontist. I'm a mom and a coach. And like you said, I owned a practice for eight years. I, how did I get into orthodontics? It was really just a decision in college. It was looking at different healthcare professions um and shadowing an orthodontist. And, uh you know, I wish that I could say it was like a dream from childhood or something like that, but it wasn't. And that's okay. ah So I ended up deciding that I was going to do orthodontics when I was in college. I got into dental school, loved dental school, went on to residency, and shortly after that bought a practice within about a year. Yeah, and now that practice was in Virginia, right? OK, awesome, awesome. Sounds good. And you know, I want to kind of preface this with something that you said earlier when we were talking offline that I think I think it's so funny and so telling and and maybe a good segue into how you got into uh the coaching. But more more importantly than that, your own personal and professional kind of reset. If you know you think that's an accurate way of. describing it, but you had said we were talking about how you started the practice or you purchased the practice, you started running it, COVID shut it down and you are the first dentist or orthodontist that I've ever talked with who said quote, I was so happy. So what did you, what did you mean by that when you said that you were happy that COVID shut down the practice and what does that sort of say about the journey that you were? Yeah, for so long, I would just think I just want a break. just want and I don't want a one week break. I don't want a vacation. You don't want a one week vacation that my accounting my accountant is taking telling me to do. I wanted a real break. And so obviously COVID was very stressful. We were all trying to sort it out. But I just remember being at home for a little while, gardening, being with my kids, and just being so happy to have that time. And confirming, like being like, oh, this feels awesome. Yeah. And so what did that mean for when you ultimately needed to transition back into practice when COVID abated? It just confirmed that my suspicions that I really did desire a strong, solid break from my ownership were true, were something valid that I could lean on. And it gave me a little more of a nudge to listen to those voices. is that is that really, you know, kind of the singular event that sort of motivated you to take a step back then and, you know, work on the flower farm and kind of find yourself personally and professionally? Like what what was sort of the next step after you came to this realization? Well, I would say the realization really was so many years in the making, right? It's like, you know, ups and downs for many years, seeing a therapist telling my accountant I was feeling burnout and him saying, you know, just take a vacation, keep going, all that kind of stuff. Yep. But I think they're always you know, kind of like build to a certain point and then you have to make a decision Are you going to you know go this way or that way and you just sort of like have to own whichever decision you make and so I sort of got to a point where I was tired of uh debating it anymore. it was either I can stay in this path that I'm on, but like, I need to let go of the idea that I don't want to be doing this or something else, or I can go ahead and make the change and trust that it will work out somehow. ah Yeah. And then I think I told you before, but the other question that I think is really helpful for people to ask themselves is if I had five years to live, what would I be doing? about that. uh also had something I saw within your coaching program that you call the five regrets of dying. What is that? Yeah, so there is, uh there was a lady, Bonnie Ware, who uh interviewed a lot of people that were on their deathbed and ah And she just discussed what their regrets were and sort of categorize them. And so people can read blogs and books and things like that on it. I really haven't studied her extensively, but I've cross-checked the things that I find to be really important because throughout all this, I've tried to really look back and be like, what makes a fulfilling life? What makes a rich a life without regrets? And so a lot of times then I'll go back and I'll reference her findings and also the blue zones where people lived to be over 100. And in that, I found very many similarities with what I've been discovering. So had you not had this realization, and like you said, it was a journey. It wasn't just one moment. ah It wasn't a sudden realization. It was something that happened over time. But had you not had that experience and been open to it, ah what is one regret that would have been one of those five regrets for you that you have since addressed? And how has it changed your life? Yeah, I would say not being, I think there's one in the beginning that's like not being authentic to yourself or having the courage to be yourself. So I often felt like there was this professional version of me that wasn't, I mean, it was authentic, but it wasn't like all of me. wasn't. who I was before becoming an orthodontist. It wasn't as creative, like all the components of me that I'd sort of stifled for many years. And I would think like, oh, my creativity doesn't really, I don't have space for that in my life anymore, for example. And I wasn't, you know, engaging in those really core strengths of my own. So I would say that's one. I mean, I would have felt like um I wasn't my full self. wasn't really, I was kind of doing work that I was very good at. But you know when you hear about like the zone of uh genius, for example, versus excellence, like you can be really good at something, but not really be doing work that just feels like magical and powerful. If that makes, does that make sense? yeah, yeah. And you you've since, I understand, returned to clinical practice, uh at least to some extent. I'm not sure if you're practicing full-time or not now. You're still doing the coaching, but what did that, and you sold the practice, like you said, what did the return to clinical practice look like for you that is different than what you were doing previously? Do mean like the specifics of it or? I just mean like maybe how you approached it or I know you're working now in pediatric, which is a little bit different. uh You know, what were you intentional about in terms of finding the next place to to clinically practice? So a few things, one is really understanding who I am and the, for example, the work environments that I do best in and being honest about that. And it might, for some people, it might not look like a traditional dental practice or a traditional orthodontic practice. So for example, I don't like working in a setting that is very high volume, lots of things going on in the room at the same time. I'm kind of jumping from. are out. Yeah. there's, yeah, there's good ones out there. Yeah, so like for example with that, I just found that even though I could totally do it, my nervous system was always sort of hypervigilant in those settings. And my attention was spread between all the different things. So that's an example. um I just sort of leaned into, I love kids and I really like the light that they bring and like, I like being around them. So doing that with PEDO. being in a culture that I um enjoy with people that I enjoy working with, which I liked at my old practice. And I think the biggest thing is like knowing what my strengths are and leaning into those and not doing all the things that are draining me. So admin side was very draining. uh I could totally do it, but I really do best when I can show up and just be there in the moment with that patient and not be kind dragged down by all the other stuff. Yeah. Now you are far from the first dentist or orthodontist that I have talked with who has owned their own practice or does own their own practice and will confide to me that they are not happy, that they are overwhelmed, that they are... stress to the max that they don't like, you said, they don't like the administrative components of owning a practice. And, you know, I've known dentists that have gotten out of that. I've known dentists and do know dentists that are still in that space uh fighting that battle. What would you say to your peers who do own practices now? And maybe it's not everything that they expected or not everything that they hope for. What would you advise them to consider or do? you know, in that headspace. Yeah, I don't think it's a one size fits all kind of answer. And I used to search for like people that were examples and I could just sort of like copy their path. ah So I don't think it means that you have to sell it or that you don't, you you do or you don't have to sell your practice. But I do think, I think listening to yourself is really important, not just. So that might just be getting really curious. might be working with a coach. It might be working with a therapist. Whoever that is that you can find that you feel like is a non-judgmental space. And you just need to really get clear on what it is that's making you unhappy and what you need. And then from there, you can begin to take baby steps. It doesn't have be huge thing all at once, but you can make little shifts. You can kind of get into an experimental mode even where you're trying out some things and then ultimately making maybe a bigger decision. Yeah, absolutely. ah You and I talked offline a little bit about the mental health crisis within dentistry, within the profession. And it's certainly something that is pervasive. I think, my husband is a dentist also, I've certainly, ah you know, seen firsthand the stress that comes with the practice and that sort of thing. How pervasive do you think it really is though, within the profession and, you, you ah know, you're relatively young. how many of your peers, your friends from dental school ah have talked with you about the similar battles that they're dealing with. I think it's. quite pervasive, but it's sort of stifled. So we, think there's this feeling of in order to be a professional or to be respected that we can't admit these things uh or that we won't, maybe we won't be a good professional. We'll be deemed like incapable or less than if we say out loud that we're struggling with some of this stuff. But had a lot of people reach out to me after I sold, how did you do this? my gosh, you know, or whatever the things were. ah And I'll just add I mean, I think it's like well beyond dentistry. I mean, I think it's our ah Yeah, so I have experience within me and our family with depression anxiety all these different things. So yeah Well, and you know, I think it's particular. I think you're absolutely right that this is this is a national problem across pretty much every industry. um You know, every every type of lifestyle, I think, you know, folks are battling these same demons, for lack of a better word. But, um you know, it's interesting dentistry dentists in particular, typically. pretty perfection oriented, uh pretty type A. So I think that it, in general, there are tons of exceptions, but I think that sets up a fundamentally different kind of dilemma for some of these professionals who, like you said, have a hard time maybe acknowledging that there is a problem or at least openly uh identifying with that. So it is really interesting. I'll just add really quick, because I think it's maybe important for people to hear these kinds of stories, but when I was in dental school, I had like a really horrible bout of anxiety. ah I was studying for national boards and it was like the first time in my life that it really flared up. And I had this horrible panic attack. I didn't even understand what was happening. And then I had like several weeks of incredible anxiety, insomnia, all this stuff. And I just, I remember feeling so much like shame and embarrassment and like I to like hide it. And luckily I got through that period and it kind of resolved and you know, I've had anxiety at different times, but never to that level. But you know, we just need to be able to talk about this stuff. and it be okay and it be normal and you're not like broken if you've had these experiences. Yeah, I think fortunately we are making progress. ah I don't think it's all doom and gloom. think uh you know those conversations are happening more in public spaces than they once were, which is great. And that's again not specific to dentistry. I we've made a lot of progress there and I see you know my husband teaches at the dental school at UNC and I see the school and I see dental schools in general across the country taking or being more mindful. of the mental health struggles that students may be experiencing and being more proactive in positioning resources for them and asking questions. um It's hard. It's really, really hard. um Dental school is no joke, as you know. uh But yeah, I I think that's great. I want to pivot really quick, though, and talk a little bit more about your experience in coaching and coaching folks who like you've said, are in career or purpose crisis. And I really like that emphasis on purpose because I think, I think that's something people don't talk about enough. But anyway, you know, as a coach, um as a dentist, you know, there's, there's a lot of, think, hesitation in seeking out coaching services because you think, I don't know, how would I find someone that's going to be the right fit? You know, that sort of thing. And, you know, a lot of it does come down to personality and finding the right match for yourself in terms of finding that person that's going to push you. that you can relate to that sort of thing. But on the other side of the table, you as a coach, you know, what are some of the qualities that you look for in clients to coach and what sort of a mindset that you think dentists need to be in when they approach a coaching relationship? Ideally, you know, I love working with clients. I'm sorry. I think it's just when people are willing to talk, to open up, that's like the biggest key. They're willing to go and explore things, to share, to be vulnerable in that private setting. And then ideally, I like to have clients, whether they start out this way or we can get them into this state where they're feeling a little more open, where they're feeling like curious and we can get them into the experimentation. Because sometimes when we first... are in that state, so like, our nervous system is so wrapped up and we're stressed and we're like hyper vigilant. And at that point, it can be really hard to like test out new things and feel relaxed about, you know, the future or uncertainty. So you know, sometimes it takes a little work to untangle that but that's the ultimate goal is to kind of get to that like more relaxed state. Yeah. really explore because I think also get different answers when we're in that really stressed state versus in the more open. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard to be vulnerable though, especially if you've not, if you've not done that before. Um, and I also, like you, I've struggled with anxiety and depression and all of those things. And it's very hard to get to a point where you can talk openly about that. And it's hard to build trust, you know, to, be quite honest, you know, uh, with someone, But one of the things I really like that you talk about on your website um when it comes to your coaching process and the process that you go through with clients related to self-discovery is values. You focus on values a lot. And I think you mentioned Brene Brown is an influence there. What's your take on values and how important they are? And how can someone start to incorporate that into planning the next phase of their professional life or personal life. Yeah. So I think as you get clear on what your values are. and you kind of create a list and it can change over time and there are exercises online that you can do. So people can go and look up for any Brown values. You could do it with a coach or therapist, but you could even do it on your own. But just getting clear on what's really important to you and then writing it down. I like to have, you sometimes I have a list of about 10, but then I try to come up with like, these are my four core values. And one the ways that I use it is if I'm making a decision, I sort of try to cross check it through those values. So say I'm gonna make a career move, I might look at each of those core values and then say like does it align or is there a way to make it align? It might be that you just are tweaking something to make it more aligned, not that you have to like totally switch the decision, ah but I think the more we do that then the more you know content fulfilled aligned we feel every day. Yeah. What were some of those values that you identified when you were looking to make a shift in terms of how you approach things? Yeah, so some of mine are things like uh variety. I have quite a few, but ah some of the like maybe more unusual would like in within dentistry would be, for example, variety. So I really like having a weekly schedule that is not the same every day. And if I'm going to the. I always talk, it's funny that reminds me pretty much every dentist I talk to is like, I don't want to do any more fillings. Okay. Well that may, that may be a little bit tough, but you know, maybe we can make some changes to get away from doing it every single time. It could be different locations. It could be you're working in two offices. It could be like me, you're doing part-time ortho and you're doing part-time coaching, some other endeavor, whatever that is. But I like to not be in the same exact location every day doing the exact same thing. I can do it two to three days a week, one thing, and then otherwise I need some shifts. ah Another big one that I was not... putting enough emphasis on is like time and ease. So having freedom of my time and feeling like relaxed enough that I can enjoy it. So when I was feeling every moment with this like work schedule, I didn't have those things. I was going to the same place. I was doing the same thing and I wasn't giving myself space for sort of like ease and just like seeing what comes up in that day. Yeah, yeah. One of the things I love that you said again on your website is that you said this crisis could be your breakthrough. So can you talk a little bit about that? And then, you know, what would you say to someone who maybe is listening to this show right now and saying, might be in a crisis. Like, would you advise that person to do next? I like to think of this one like I used to think, oh no, I took the wrong path. That was like sort of what was going on in my mind. Like I ended up here because I took the wrong path. And now I think of it much more like our life is this winding road with different pit stops. I did when I was a kid, but I don't. Okay, I will. I I know I played that when I was a kid. all good. Yeah, so I mean, I think that's, guess, hopefully that makes sense with that crisis thing that sometimes when you're in the thick of it, it seems like this bad thing, but it doesn't have to be it might just be messages that end up leading you somewhere new and wonderful and exciting, you know. I love and I think there's there's so much to be said about that in terms of mindset. The moment you can shift your mindset from uh associating a problem with stress and anxiety and the fear of the unknown and you can shift that and view problems or obstacles or roadblocks as opportunities. uh You know it really does change things and you know. The quote unquote mindset you know in this space gets a lot of. You know, it's kind of cliche, but at the same time, I think there's a lot to be said about that because like you said, this crisis could be your breakthrough. Flip the script on it and you know, you the voice in your head like I agree mindset kind of gets old but I do that now like if I hear a voice in my head saying like what if I fail then you just sort of flip it and you're like and what if I don't And also, what if you do fail? I mean, that's fine. mean, failure is, in my opinion, the best way to learn. It's funny how falling flat on your face encourages you not to do that again. And you figure out what adjustments do I have to make. So yeah, I I think it's so great what you're doing. think having an honest conversation about uh you know, professional and personal purpose and uh you know, what what do your values, you know, look like and how do they support, you know, or maybe how are they, you know, restrained by your current situation? Like I think it's it's so important and I love what you're doing. What can you tell us, you know, before we close out here about your coaching practice? I mean, if folks want to get in touch with you, uh what's what's the best way to do that? Yeah, I have a website drcambonbrown.com and I also have an Instagram page so can contact me either of those ways. Um, yeah, I have a very, I guess I would say sort of casual coaching. So I have it set up where you can book, you know, one session, you can keep booking sessions, whatever you want, whatever works for you. And I just try to make myself available for people and create space for them and help guide them through what they're going through, give them a space to you know, let it all out and kind of map it out and get some clarity on it. Sometimes it's, you can get really lost in your own thoughts about it and get onto your emotions and your thoughts. And it's hard to sort of like sift through it and figure out. what do I really want and then how can I get there? And so those are my goals is to help people get really clear on uh their values, their strengths, what will make them have a fulfilling rich life and then kind of guiding them into those action steps for it. Awesome. Well, we'll share the links to the website and to your Instagram in the show notes. But just to close out here, what is the one message you want to leave folks with who may be facing a crisis of career or purpose? What do you want to leave them? Yeah, don't nothing comes to mind like one thing but I guess just um, I know I should have an answer. Um, listen to yourself that like there's There are thoughts in our heads, right? But there is also like, sort of an intuition there that gets kind of buried in all the chaos and the noise and the schedules. And I remember when I was in these crises, this moment of crisis or trying to decide when I got really still, like I could hear that voice still. And it would tell me you want to change, for example, like it was, it was clear, I thought I was confused, but like when I was really honest, I kind knew. So, you know, they say to ask that question, like if I knew the answer, for example, I think just allowing space to actually listen to that voice is really important. absolutely. It's reminds me, there's some author, forget who it is, Emerson Thoreau, someone who said they talked about the still small voice. And I know somewhere right now, if my uh college English professor was listening to this, she would be so disappointed in me. But it's someone like that. And I like that idea. Listen to what's inside and um yeah, don't forget it. space, that's really nice. I'm gonna look it up. Yeah, look it up. Maybe I'll throw that in the show notes too. ah But anyway, I'm sorry, Dr. Dawson. ah That's on me. But anyway, thank you so much, Dr. Brown, for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. I think your message is something that needs to be heard. And I think it is so important, particularly in this profession, but not even limited to that. And I want to remind folks, anyone who may have stumbled upon the Dental Domination podcast that is not a dentist, Dr. Brown does work with any high achieving. a person, whether that be dentist, orthodontist, or doctor or lawyer, or anyone. You could be a school teacher, anyone that is a high achiever uh in considering maybe making a shift in how you approach life or career. uh Anyone. This is not just limited to dentists, certainly. It's a more universal thing than that. But anyway. Thank you so much, Dr. Brown. I would love to have you back on the show at some point down the line and, you know, check back in and see, see how things are going with your profession as you're on this journey. think it's really awesome what you've done and you should be proud. Really cool. But thank you so much for joining. yeah, everyone that was listening today, thank you so much for checking out the show. If you don't mind, please take just two seconds and leave us a five-star rating on either Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get this show. Really appreciate it as the best way for us to reach other dentists and other oral health professionals out there, practice managers, administrators, anyone. uh It is the single best way to help us reach other folks to help. So thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Brown. And uh yeah, take care. Thank you for having me. Awesome. We'll see you soon.